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EhJsNe

Is eye contact generaly not good?

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EhJsNe

Ive discovered yelling NO at Shammy isnt effective at anything but getting his attention--I discovered though that staring him right in the eyes when he does something bad makes him stop growling and biting.

I got an idea that eye contact could intimidate Shammy and make him want to be meaner the next time to get back at me or something.....

So is it a bad thing to stare a shih tzu in the eyes

(he is a male shih tzu - chin mix and is about 2.5 month old)

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kcsheperd

Ceasar says "No Talk No Touch No Eye Contact" when dealing with agressive dogs.. But I don't think Shih-tzu's are agressive dogs..I have the same problem you do, when I tell Payslee "No" she barks back "YES!" and If I say "Payslee NO!" she will just keep barking, so I had to get a squirt bottle after her..She has a tendency to bark at her older Brother when he won't get down, or if she doesn't get her way..so you might try that..

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borzoimom

Is your eye contact intimindating? Can you soften your eyes and have you had any tramatic situation lately? To stare at a dog if they are not sure of your intentions either it could be aggression to feeling defensive ( ie wanting to protect themselves)

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ralphies angels

You should never associate a dogs name with a negative term like "NO". Specificly using his name followed by "NO". If he is doing something, you disapprove of... try using a tone or sound that sounds like a grow. The Alpha leader in a pack, has only to grow to let the rest of the pack no his disapproval of their actions.

Ceaser, will use a shhhhhh! and a tap with his hand or foot to make his corrections. Works for him!

Also your puppy at 2.5 months is only growling and bitting because that what puppies do. Its called puppy play.

Starring at him can be a good thing. Your the pack leader. You should show him you disapprove of something his doing.

If starring at him works, it's better than yelling..."NO!!" followed by his name!!

Oh, and puppies wont stare back at you to get back at you. He is probably just curious at why his moomy keeps starring back at him.

He is just a puppy...... :puppy:

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borzoimom

A stare to a puppy is aggression from the other.... the pup is feeling defensive in behavior.. Do the casual.. ie you glance at them, sigh and slowly glance away-. That in dog talk means " I am ignoring you- just relax..."

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Luna

I have recently met and become friendly with a highly respected trainer of several decades experience and was pleased to find that we are of a mind on aggression. He told me he always wants a dog to display aggression towards him once, because it will never happen again. The second the dog goes for him, he grabs it by the scruff of the neck, lifts the front feet off the floor, shakes ONCE and says "NO" loudly in a low, growly voice while making direct eye contact. He then drops the dog and turns his back. This is true alpha behavior and speaks volumes to the dog invovled. I've done this for decades myself and it WORKS, so I agree with him completely. Yes, I even did it with Jack, who was closing in on 60 pounds when we adopted him. Guess who Jack listens to? (Hint: not my dog-disciplinarian-wimpy DH.)

Think about it...what does a good mother dog do when one of her pups gets out of line? The equivalent of what I've just described, that's what! Your baby is very young and perhaps had a less-than-ideal mother (it happens) or is just testing you. Do NOT let her win. You don't have to be mean, but you DO have to be firm. Both of you will appreciate it in the end.

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Cackle

I stare Molly down sometimes, I don't need to do it with Mitsi.

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Sally

I have had dogs for years, I use positive training. Puppies growl and play. You can just teach in a positive way that you are the leader. Reg. obedience training, NILF training, training to do "tricks" and fun things are always the best way to bond and treat a pet.

Also, one the pup has all shots, a nice walk each day is important.

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EhJsNe

Also your puppy at 2.5 months is only growling and bitting because that what puppies do. Its called puppy play.

Starring at him can be a good thing. Your the pack leader. You should show him you disapprove of something his doing.

Well I doubt growling and pouncing and not letting you go within 10 feet of the guy is puppy play....

I have recently met and become friendly with a highly respected trainer of several decades experience and was pleased to find that we are of a mind on aggression. He told me he always wants a dog to display aggression towards him once, because it will never happen again. The second the dog goes for him, he grabs it by the scruff of the neck, lifts the front feet off the floor, shakes ONCE and says "NO" loudly in a low, growly voice while making direct eye contact. He then drops the dog and turns his back. This is true alpha behavior and speaks volumes to the dog invovled. I've done this for decades myself and it WORKS, so I agree with him completely. Yes, I even did it with Jack, who was closing in on 60 pounds when we adopted him. Guess who Jack listens to? (Hint: not my dog-disciplinarian-wimpy DH.)

Think about it...what does a good mother dog do when one of her pups gets out of line? The equivalent of what I've just described, that's what! Your baby is very young and perhaps had a less-than-ideal mother (it happens) or is just testing you. Do NOT let her win. You don't have to be mean, but you DO have to be firm. Both of you will appreciate it in the end.

Uhm....now how can I go about doing this without breaking a shih tzu neck? lol. The scruff is the back of it, just behind the top of the head, right?

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mi_ku

The scruff is just the skin. You grab the loose skin and shake appropriatley. There is no one size fits all when it comes to training. Some dogs do great w/ positive only training and some need more discipline. It sounds like your pup really does need to be set straight. I don't think it's just puppy behavior. I know if we were talking about a large breed puppy, this would be taken more seriously. Just b/c their tiny, doesn't mean the rules don't apply. I think you should seriously consider bringing in a professional. The sooner you act, the easier it will be to fix.

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tashi love

I am posting a link to a good article on teaching bite inhibition to a puppy, it is easier than writing it all out for you as I share their views. Staring at a dog is an aggressive posture and should only be used once you have gained your position as leader. Ignoring behaviors you don't want and rewarding those ones that you do want is the best approach IMO. I would not use the throw down either.

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ShihtzuBeauty

LOL looking for link??? :hug:

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ShihtzuBeauty

This happens to be something I do All of the time. :hug:

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Apeke

I am no dog expert by any means...

If I were SUZIE girl would be a princess and not well...SZUIE...LOL

However, I also heard that Victoria on It's Me Or The Dog once say..

Agression begets Agression.

If you show signs of aggressions, it's in an animals nature to defend itself...

You really need to know what your doing before taking drastic physical measures such as what Luna posted.

I was also watching a TV program where this police officer was being interviewed with his K-9 partner by a local news station and the interviewer, not realizing his actions to pet the dog was in the dogs mind an aggressive act and he lept up and bit the news man in the face.

Deemed a trip to the ER and several facial stitches.

What he did was place his hands on either side on the dog's head just behind the ears, to rub ithem in what would appear as a greeting fashion.

But then he stood up and towered up over the dog's head which placed the dog into an instant defensive mode and lunged at the man thinking this man was about to do something arrgessive against him...

I say, if you don't know what your doing, don't do it or there could be consequences.

Love, patience, treats and posititve approval to me, is the best remedy to training your little pup...

At such a young age, I can't see much aggressive tendicies yet..

Do you know the blood line of your pup?

It sadly, could be inherited...

Maybe talk to the breeder and see what he/she says about the history behind the bred parents....

Maybe look into behavior classes...you can look through your local shelter / ASPCA / VET / PetCo, etc...

NEW EDIT: I just clicked on the link shared above and read the page...

I used that approach with Corkey when he was a puppy..

He loved to bite. He would reach for your hand and put it in his mouth and hold on to it and it really hurt, though Corkey was only playing in his own way...So I started using the phrase: NO BITE..... and I would say it sternly...then little by little he would release his grip and let go.

Now, I am teaching that to Suzie as she to gets agressive in her play, especially with Corkey and she grabs hold of his ear or tail and he actually lets out a tiny yelp showing it hurts........So I just say Sternly and in a loud enough (I MEAN IT TONE) ...NO BITE...

And she'll let go.

Edited by Apeke

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tashi love

You're welcome. :D

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enchantedmountain

If a puppy shows aggression toward me I will grab him tight, look him straight in the eyes and in a low tone yell "no" and then always keep doing whatever it was I was doing. Sometimes puppies can come across as "mean", but I truely believe it is just a puppy not knowing quite how to show his feelings and how to interact with humans. They are like kids and need to learn how to cope with their emotions and feelings and how to interact with humans rather than dogs. I don't put them down at all after they act aggressive (assuming we are talking about a puppy), I will hold them firm so they cant bite or growl or nip any more. I am a firm believer that if they growl at you or nip because you picked them up when they didn't want to be or combed them when they did not want to be, then putting them down after you yell, does nothing but encourage them to do it again, to get what they want. I stare them in the eyes yell "no" and keep on doing what I am doing. It works everytime for me. Of course it takes a little time and repetition, but I have not ever failed using that technique. As far as aggresive adult large dogs, that may be different as a big dog could eat me for dinner if he wanted I would suppose :D

I guess I should add, I am talking about an act of aggression, which is completely different than biting while playing. Biting while playing is normal and they need to be allowed to do that, they just need to learn not to do it on their humans fingers and toes. It is important for their teeth and gum development to bite. It helps their teeth loosen and fall out as pups, so that their adult teeth can come in straight, etc.

Just read the above article. It was really good!

Edited by enchantedmountain

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Ellie18
On 1/19/2009 at 8:59 PM, Luna said:

I have recently met and become friendly with a highly respected trainer of several decades experience and was pleased to find that we are of a mind on aggression. He told me he always wants a dog to display aggression towards him once, because it will never happen again. The second the dog goes for him, he grabs it by the scruff of the neck, lifts the front feet off the floor, shakes ONCE and says "NO" loudly in a low, growly voice while making direct eye contact. He then drops the dog and turns his back. This is true alpha behavior and speaks volumes to the dog invovled. I've done this for decades myself and it WORKS, so I agree with him completely. Yes, I even did it with Jack, who was closing in on 60 pounds when we adopted him. Guess who Jack listens to? (Hint: not my dog-disciplinarian-wimpy DH.)

 

Think about it...what does a good mother dog do when one of her pups gets out of line? The equivalent of what I've just described, that's what! Your baby is very young and perhaps had a less-than-ideal mother (it happens) or is just testing you. Do NOT let her win. You don't have to be mean, but you DO have to be firm. Both of you will appreciate it in the end.

I had a german Shepperd who quickly outweighed me and thought she was the alpha she would grab my hair (down to my waist) and would take me for a walk haha at dog training classes everytime i said lie down she would growl at me  - i was pregnant with my first and thought this is not gonna go well - one day when she did it to me again - i grabbed her and pinned her to the wall and got in her face (stupid looking back) and yelled at her - but it worked -  never again did she even look at me sideways, growl , ignore me and when i told her to lie down she would instantly drop to the ground lol - she turned out to be one of the best dogs I had and protected my two sons like they were her own. So if i can do that with a shepherd  a shih tzu should be easy peesy right? She is only 3 months old now so let’s see ??? 

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Pawz4me
1 hour ago, Ellie18 said:

I had a german Shepperd who quickly outweighed me and thought she was the alpha she would grab my hair (down to my waist) and would take me for a walk haha at dog training classes everytime i said lie down she would growl at me  - i was pregnant with my first and thought this is not gonna go well - one day when she did it to me again - i grabbed her and pinned her to the wall and got in her face (stupid looking back) and yelled at her - but it worked -  never again did she even look at me sideways, growl , ignore me and when i told her to lie down she would instantly drop to the ground lol - she turned out to be one of the best dogs I had and protected my two sons like they were her own. So if i can do that with a shepherd  a shih tzu should be easy peesy right? She is only 3 months old now so let’s see ??? 

IME and IMO punishing or dissuading a dog from growling is a very, very bad thing. Hugely bad. Awful. I've seen it backfire so many times, and of course more often than not the dog pays a huge price for it.

Growling is one of a very limited number of ways a dog has of communicating that us stupid humans can understand (if we are diligent and smart enough to know we need to learn--most people are neither of those things). Growling can "say" all sorts of things, just like a tail wag can. A high, short tail wag is "saying" something totally different than a low, wide wag. And different growls "say" different things. It's fairly easy to learn dog language.

You know you always hear of dog bites and the human says "there was no warning at all?" That's generally never true, but when it is IME it's almost always a dog who has been punished for communicating. Poor dogs. Too many humans take away all their means of communication and then the dog dies because it's been taught to stay silent. :(

Never punish the growl. Instead "listen" to what it's saying and address that.

IME and IMO, of course. 

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Crinkly

Are 3 month old shih tzus aggressive?  I would be very surprised.

i look back at Tara and Cato’s puphoods and I remember bouncing and scrabbling and snarling and nipping and over excited exuberance, but NEVER aggression, and NEVER anything that needed me to exert some human dominance thing.  i never raised my voice and I never told either of them off.  The simple withdrawing of attention, and turning away was the only negative they needed, and I used positive reinforcement to develop behaviour we wanted.

the first time Cato was ‘told No’ was by the puppy class trainer, and he shut down for the rest of the lesson, and never trusted her again.  Very much the wrong technique to use on him, but she was used to a class of jack russells, border terriers and staffies, and just forgot to change gear, in one interaction with him - and apologised profusely afterwards.

Tara has 2 growls.  One is a boisterous play growl.  The other is a monster-outside guard growl.  She has never growled aggressively.

Cato has never growled at all.

Please don’t teach your puppy a fear-reaction to a fun 3 month old playtime growling/snarling/wrestling/chomping game.  Just turn away and disengage until they calm down a bit.  Then return and play an energetically exhausting game of your choosing, until they are tired enough to be relaxed.  If they are Bursting with energy, then they need more mental and physical activity to wear them out.  Longer walks.  Several training sessions a day.  Changing gear.  Socialisation.  More varied environments... it wears them out, settles them down, and they will never need to develop any fear/aggression behaviours.

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