Shock collars?

[Wicket's mom 1]

My little Wicket is a very vocal little man. I used to be able to correct his barking, but I can't anymore. He doesn't bark constantly, but there are a lot of things that get him going and once he starts there's no stopping him until he's good and ready. DH has been hassling me to get a shock collar for him, and our trainer at the obedience classes just suggested it to me today too. She says he's an "emotional barker" and that's the only way to correct it.

The whole idea of my little man getting shocked kinda scares me. I've been reading up on them and most give a warning sound first, then a shock if they bark within 30 secs. If they bark again the shock intensifies. One thing I'm scared of is, what if this thing doesn't reset after the 30 seconds?

I seen some that only send out annoying sounds and don't shock and thought I could try that instead but DH says no that won't be good enough.

Has anyone ever used either collar before? Do you think they're safe?

Thanks in advance!

[FairyTail Josette 14]

I'm sorry Angela, I don't like shock collars. You know I love that show, "It's Me or The Dog" with Victoria Stilwell, she made the owner put the collar on their own skin to see how it burned and hurt when the dog was zapped, and the collar wasn't even turned up to where the dog was wearing it. She highly recommended against using them for any breed.

[Wicket's mom 1]

Suzi, I totally agree with you! I REALLY don't want to get this thing, DH wants to and our trainer says we need it. I don't know what to do.

[Sally 1]

Never, ever, ever, ever. There are SO many positive ways to train. That is hurtful in many sad ways. You will lose all trust. Horrible. I am shocked about the trainer. Do not do it. Wicket has no choice but to trust you will do the humane and correct thing. Do not listen to the others.

I agree, Do you watch "It's Me or the Dog" on Animal Planet? That is very helpful. That thing hurts. Please do not hurt him with that.

Does he walk at least once a day to get his energy used? Play games, teach fun tricks?

Victoria Stillwell has a book. We have to learn how to help them if there is a problem. It is usually the problem with us, not them.

Edited February 8, 2009 by Sally

[Stacey 7]

I agree, no shock collar. My husband and father in law uses them on the beagles for training purposes.... and I litterally seen one little girl shocked so hard that she was totally backwards for a long time and could no longer hunt. They thought the shocker wasnt working and kept hitting it, she didnt bark at all just sat there as she didnt understand why she was being shocked.

Im not sure about the beagle and hunting thing... but i know for one I would never use it on a shih tzu.

We have been working with the knocking on the door and saying "enough" when they bark, when they calm down and be quiet we say good girl or boy and so far we think its working a little bit. But its a work in progress.

[Sally 1]

How horrible to use them for those dogs. That is inhumane. They should not be on the market.

[Stacey 7]

I just asked my husband why they used them and here's his words.

Some beagles not all, will run dear and other smells besides bunnies. If they run a deer and that deer runs across the road, then the beagle will follow and get hit by a car. He said he thinks they are horrible and only uses them in rare circumstances. But he'd rather try a shock coller to train them to avoid a deer than to have them run and get hit by a car.

He said they should not be used lightly and on a whim. That a shih tzu can be trained not to bark until asked to speak. He said teach him to speak first, then you can teach him "hush" or "enough" after he knows what speak is.

[TheShihtzuation 0]

How horrible to use them for those dogs. That is inhumane. They should not be on the market.

I totally agree with you. I would find another trainer (if possible) that only believes in positive reinforcement.. not physical abuse.

Maybe take your hubby in the store with you and let him test it first just to see how much it'd hurt your baby.. :blush-anim-cl:

[Lily&Bunni 0]

My parents used to use the shock collars on our cockapoo and they didn't really work. They stopped using them. Bunni used to bark all the time, but once she learned how to sit and stay, it solved everything. If she hears something and I think she's going to bark, I make her sit and stay because then all of her focus is on me, she can't move until I say so, which means she doesn't bark. When I was home for christmas, I had my dad come in and out of the house like 5 times and she didn't make a sound, now she almost never barks and she was a barker.

[kcsheperd 13]

Payslee is very vocal..I use a squirt bottle.. That way it can fire from way across the room, but also mist at them up close..most of the time, (thanks to my un-stellar aim) I don't even hit Payslee WITH the water..but its the whole concept that stops her from barking..If she sees me with the bottle she will make this grumbling blah blah bark..Like "Great..mama's got her damn bottle out..I have to be quiet..grumble grumble.." But I had to find something that stopped her because she would seriously go on for like 10 minutes! The squirt doesn't hurt them in anyway, its just like "Hey!".. lol.. and her face afterwards makes me laugh because she looks at me like, "How do you do that?".. lol..

BTW--Payslee knows how to "speak" on command..but so far that hasn't worked to shut her up..I've tried..SHHHHHHH..or HUSH..Or Quiet.. and she's like "Bark NO! Bark NO!" lol.. So thats why I had to go to the bottle.. the squirt bottle that is.. not a bottle of liquor for myself.. not yet anyway..lol

Edited February 8, 2009 by kcsheperd

[ShihNanigans 0]

I have to go with the rest on this one...NO to the shock collar.

From what I've read, the best way to teach them not to bark is to teach them to bark on command. If they learn how to "speak" when they are supposed to, they will learn when to bark and when not to. If he is a barker anyway, it shouldn't be hard to teach him the speak command. He barks, you say "Speak. Good speak," and give him a treat.

The squirt bottle is a good idea, too. I've also heard of people having success by shaking a can full of pennies to distract them when they bark too much.

Edited February 8, 2009 by ShihNanigans

[mel 251]

Zoe used to be a chronic barker and I do mean chronic to the point that my boyfriend said I needed to consider getting rid of her. She started at about 6 months and I took her to the vet and my own vet told me to get a shock collar. She told me to leave it on the lowest setting and that that is how she trained her dog and the lowest setting really did not hurt them. I thought about it and talked to my mom about it and we decided against it. As she got older she got much better about barking at in and everything. I started standing over her and telling her no in a firm voice over and over until she got the picture. I also bought one of those collars that make the annoying tone when they bark and it helped some.

[tammy 0]

Please do not get a shock collar!!! They can be very harmful. I agree with KC, try a water bottle. There are lots of positive ways to get dog to do what you want. Of couse Im sure its annoying for you, but I would do some reseach on the shock collar, there are alot of horrible stoies about them. Also Im sure you can find some other way of teaching to get the results you want. There are alot of things on the internet to help with these poblems.

Ellie goes to the door and barks if she hears someone in the apartment hall way. I simply get in front of her and make her walk away from the door. Now if she sees me coming she doesnt even bother she will go where I usually put her. I never say anything to her until she has done what I want. Then I simply say good girl. I to watch Its Me or the dog and The Dog Whisperer and I really pay attention to what they say. I do not think a good trainer or vet would suggest a shock collar. I think its just an easy fix and horribly painful.

Tammy, Ellie, and Hannah

[chacha 1]

That a shih tzu can be trained not to bark until asked to speak. He said teach him to speak first, then you can teach him "hush" or "enough" after he knows what speak is.

Yes, this works. I am currently doing this with Alice. She isn't quite there but it takes time.

[CrazyTzuLady 16]

I have to agree with the rest of them. I think they are terribly inhumane. My in laws used to have Dobermans and they used those horrible things on them it actually left marks on their throats. Back then I had no idea that they were bad but I know differently now and I would never do that to one of my babies. Sorry. :wiggle2:

[enchantedmountain 2]

First of all I don't like shock collars either and I have used one (not on my tzus). I do not like the bark collars as I don't trust that they will turn off or reset either. I do have to say that if used properly the shock collars should never leave a mark of any kind and if it is actually burning their skin then something is wrong. A shock collar is not meant to be left on. You put it on during a training session and then remove it. If left on, it can cause damage to their skin (not because of the shocking, but because of the things that rub on their skin). Also a dogs skin and nerve endings are different than humans. We can not put them on ourselves and feel exactly what the dog is feeling (our skin isn't as thick). There are training collars for different sizes of dogs. I have put the training collar for small dogs on me and felt what it feels like on all settings. The lowest setting I couldn't feel anything much. the highest setting it felt like touching a live wire, but didn't hurt in any way just a shock. Training collars can be safe and effective if used properly. The problem is most people do not use them properly and leave them on or over use them. They can be used along side positive reinforcement (believe it or not). Now all this being said, I did use a training collar on by mini schnauzer a few years back, I think I over used it and did not do scheduled training session, and did not give treats when he did good things and to this day when porter hears a clicking noise or repetitive beeping noises, he runs and hides. I feel just horrible and will never use one again. I really think there should be a class on how to properly use a training collar, because I am sure that about 90% of the time they are not used properly. I have no experience with the bark collars, so I can't speak for them, as I don't know what it feels like or how it works really.

[ngandkoi 3]

i just refused to sell yoshi to a woman who wanted to use one its a no no...............cruel and how do you think a dog would feel like the whole idea repels me .....its called aversion therapy....think how you would feel if some one used it on a baby toddler to stop it yelling....a man has been sent to jail in the states for using it on his children personally i think they should have given him a taste of it with a cattle prod where the sun dont shine and if its cruel to kids a court decided why should it be o.k. for dogs....could give a heart attack as well also make him terrified because he wont understand.......

sorry i do feel very strongly about this .....please reconsider.......................

[Seastar 44]

No, never. There are humane and effective alternatives.

[Wicket's mom 1]

Well, you guys have pretty much reinforced what I have been thinking. Now the hard part is convincing my hubby that we are NOT GETTING one of these horrible things.

I think the main reason my trainer suggested getting it is that with her help, when Wicket was younger I had managed to train him to stop barking on command but a few mos ago he just reverted back to his old ways and stopped listening. So she doesn't know what else to do now. I will do more research and look for other ways though, the shock collar just scares me too much, I don't wanna hurt my baby like that.

[ngandkoi 3]

ask your hubby if he would wear one before trying it out you would have to put it on high size difference wait until he falls asleep then zap him bet he changes his mind lol only joking try and convince him as it is cruel and there are better ways

[Wicket's mom 1]

ask your hubby if he would wear one before trying it out you would have to put it on high size difference wait until he falls asleep then zap him bet he changes his mind lol only joking try and convince him as it is cruel and there are better ways

LOL, that sure would "zap" some sense into him! Honestly though, I have read a bunch of info from the ASPCA website and a few others to him, and he's gradually growing into the idea that this may not be a good idea (although he's not willingly admitting this lol). So, so long as I can get him to stop barking w/o it I should be ok. I've never actually tried the squirt bottle yet so this is what I'm trying for now. Wish me luck!

And thank you everyone :praying:

[FairyTail Josette 14]

Our Shih Tzu are so much like skin children. Not only are the collars cruel, but, I think if one uses them, that it will lead into other behavioral problems down the road. As they don't understand, the logic of it all, imo. Positive training equals success. Negative training leads to confusion for the dog. Also, there are people that are trainers, that shouldn't be. We have a trainer here in town, that uses shock collars and all negative training methods, his speciality is his training German Shepherds. I've heard nothing but horror stories from people that attend his class.

Angela, if the squirt bottle doesn't work for you, you may want to consider a distraction/treat training method down the road. Good luck.

Edited to add: Cody is a barker outside. We've been trying to work with him with this method and it's been working...but, a very slow process.

Edited February 8, 2009 by Chocolate Shih Tzu Candy

[Apeke 4]

I agree with everyone who said NO NO NO.....

Like Suzi said above, it can lead to behavior problems not to mention create serious aggression in the dog in the future.

It is not TRAINING...it is PUNISHING the dog for something natural it does based on what it is..A DOG.

There are soooo many other training tools and options, but to put an animal through shock treatment is horrible.

Oh sure..the dog may eventually relate the pain to the barking...and sure, maybe it will stop the dog from barking..

But then what about the new set of issues you've developed into the dog's behavior?

They initially introduced using this method for training guard dogs, like Dobie's and Shepards, and pit bulls, rotties, etc..

for security as it created agression in the dog and that was their goal..to get the animal to have a form of aggression for the cause of the guarding what ever business, etc..

But even since this introduction, MANY have learned how cruel it was and even stopped using it and trained other ways, like how Cesar shows on TV.

Get your hubby to read what's online and have him read this thread of replies..

I know we're raised in a desensitized society and people often don't look to the DOG as a life with feelings or rights..

But, they are ALIVE and they DO have feelings...

My ex son in law has raised my grand daughter to be desensitized to the death and life of their animals.

And it pains my heart to see her so neutural to an animal in pain, or suffering, and so on.

I am working on her with this tho.

She saw my reaction and months of tears and all the things I did to help my grieving when my Bridgette passed away...

As she was a toddler when I first got Bridgette and knew Bridgette well..but didn't flinch an eyelash when she learned Bridgette passed away.

Now, she sees a little clearer how pets can and do effect our hearts and lives and how precious their lives are while here with us.

To me? There is NO negative in a dog that isn't placed there by humans.

Oh gosh girl..

I hope your DH comes around and looks at the shock collar in a negative way and opts against using it.

Edited February 8, 2009 by Apeke

[ShihtzuBeauty 47]

I have to chime in too No Never use a shock collar PLEASE!!! There are soo many reasons not to and soo many other ways to handle that behavoir.

[Tzu and Me 0]

BTW--Payslee knows how to "speak" on command..but so far that hasn't worked to shut her up..I've tried..SHHHHHHH..or HUSH..Or Quiet.. and she's like "Bark NO! Bark NO!" lol.. So thats why I had to go to the bottle.. the squirt bottle that is.. not a bottle of liquor for myself.. not yet anyway..lol

Angela, if the squirt bottle doesn't work for you, you may want to consider a distraction/treat training method down the road. Good luck.

I'm trying this method with my babies. It seems to be working to stop them barking at the time, still early days yet to see if it works without the treats etc.

Edited February 9, 2009 by Fi_loves_Benny