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Growling at my kids


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This weekend was the first time that I witnessed this but apparently it has happened before. One of my 8 yr old twins went to pick up Izzy who was just walking around (we had company over so she HAD been excited but had settled at this point). When my dd started picking her up she turned her head and started growling a mean growl. I told her to put her down and leave her alone for awhile. Later the same thing happened with my 12 yr old.

Izzy has never done this to me or my husband but he told me this morning that he's seen it happen to all of the girls at one point or another.

How do I nip this in the bud. It is totally NOT acceptable for her to react this way. The times I saw it my daughters had done nothing wrong. They didn't wake her, sneak up on her or anything.

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Okay- I do not want especially for a child to get hurt so let me give you an option. You will need to ride this house. By putting her down, Izzy got what she wanted- ie put me down..As we say - do the battle today.

Ask your children to not pick her up unless you are there to start first. Child picks up the dog and you are ready. If izzy growls you suddenly take her from your daughter- turn your back on your daughter, ( this tells the dog she is on her own now), roll her over on her back in your arms and get " MAD". " BAD GIRL!! NO!!!!!! wHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU!!" TYPE thing. You wait until Izzy stops struggling then you remove her from the room abruptly! Now- if Izzy yelps during this- that is submission- she isnt hurt she is saying ' ALRIGHT ALRIGHT I AM SORRY..' SO you sudeenly stop the words, but still remove her from the room. ( ie isolation from the pack.)

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I've never had to deal with this so I'm not sure the best way to correct it. Maybe check out Victoria Stilwell's forum and see if there's any advice there. How old is Izzy now? It may be the teenager testing the limits and trying to rule the house phase. I wouldn't put the puppy on it's back though, from everything I've heard and read, that is an old style of correction that actually can make aggression worse. Shih Tzu are sensitive too, so I don't know if the "getting mad" is a good thing to try either. Hopefully you get some good tips from others here who've dealt with it before.

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Izzy would be in her arms- ie to feel her mom's " power" more than anything. ie take her down a peg as Izzy does not decide what to do- her mom does. And then the child becomes an extension of her mom too.

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Izzy is 4 1/2 months old. We do start puppy class training on Monday evening so I also plan on discussing this with that trainer. We're using the same trainer that we used with Biscotti.

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You even do a partial of this ( only without the drama) to a young pup that refuses to be held. Its just simple dominance. The reason for the excellation on your part is due to the growl. Nip that in the bud. Because I guarrentee you- if she growled when a bigger or older dog got growled at by puppy playing dominant games- they would be just as dramatic as well and hold that puppy down until it submitted.

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I've never had to deal with this so I'm not sure the best way to correct it. Maybe check out Victoria Stilwell's forum and see if there's any advice there. How old is Izzy now? It may be the teenager testing the limits and trying to rule the house phase. I wouldn't put the puppy on it's back though, from everything I've heard and read, that is an old style of correction that actually can make aggression worse. Shih Tzu are sensitive too, so I don't know if the "getting mad" is a good thing to try either. Hopefully you get some good tips from others here who've dealt with it before.

No it is not a teenage thing My Harley started this with our kids about 6 months ago and he is over 2 years old and we nipped it is the bud , we did everything that Michele said to do but I had my kids not put him down just hand him to me so he does not get his way about being put down and then I turned him over and told him no and then took him to the gates Laundry room and away from the others which is like some sorta doggy time out and I do not used they're crates as punishment, that is they're den.

Since my kids are teen and old then yours I did not do the put down method, Kristen I would do what Michelle said have them put her down or hand her to you and then do the rest.

You even do a partial of this ( only without the drama) to a young pup that refuses to be held. Its just simple dominance. The reason for the excellation on your part is due to the growl. Nip that in the bud. Because I guarrentee you- if she growled when a bigger or older dog got growled at by puppy playing dominant games- they would be just as dramatic as well and hold that puppy down until it submitted.

Yes it is dominance and Harley is the dominant dog around here and he was trying it out on the kids, and I bet she is trying to become dominant over your kids.

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Angel would growl at my grandsons, mainly because they were noisy and rambunctious and wanting to pick her up all the time. She never growled at my granddaughter. I just told them to leave her alone, she is warning you. THEN she tried it on me. I thumped her nose and told her NO. A couple of times and she quit trying that. Now that the grandsons are all teens, she doesn't care if they pick her up, but actually jumps into their laps. She never did try to bite anyone, just growl. She does it to Brandi too !!

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If I may say- as a trainer- one of the problems I have to deal with for my students are those with little dogs. Just because they are little, they do not discipline them like a dog. To put this into perspective- if Izzy were as big as say Nina, you know you would ' back it up". A later bite is still that- a bite- maybe more amplified with a bigger dog- but its a bite and a growl is a warning and warnings are NOT tolerated- right? One good correction is better than 20 half corrections. And a dog should always submit- always submit when picked up. If nothig else- they are much less likely if they understand that if like they were hurt and you had to help.

And adding- that is why elevation is part of the puppy tests they do. To test the dominance level and also train to not 'take the law into their own hands.". She does not get what she wants until she submits- no matter how long the battle. Then it turns into a positive of " why bother- okay fine- pick me up..." type thing.

Edited by borzoimom
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I agree with what Michelle has said. These are such tiny little dogs that in some respects they are not deemed as dogs at all by the owners, more as a child. I know as I am guilty of this also. I never would have allowed any of this type of behaviour from my Rottie, it would have been nipped in the bud straight away.

I found Gizmos little stunts amusing sometimes until we ended up having even bigger problems. Only then did I look back and notice he was this way because I failed to sort out the minor issues we were having early on. Even now I still have to keep myself in check.

Gizmo will still challenge my eldest Daughter and my Son and it's MY fault totally that he is this way.

In his head our little pack works like this.... Stephen, Myself, Georgia Gizmo, Rebecca, Marcus. He is slowly but surely working his way down our pack, as a year ago it was very different. He took top spot, we were just his minions.

We started Nilf training and he really has turned around although my older 2 kids he isn't too happy about still, unless they are loving him and lavishing him with affection, if they happen to pass by him without paying him any attention he freaks.

It does indeed sound like Izzy is trying to dominate the kids, I would indeed try what Michelle has suggested also take a look at the Victoria Stillwell site, its packed full of info regarding dominance etc and is a really informative read. Good luck :evil:

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This all goes to "Small Dog Syndrome", where the little adorable dog is spoiled rotten and gets its way all the time (like a spoiled small child). Since the dog never GETS very big, the treatment continues and that is how all the monster Toy breeds and mixes we professionals deal with daily are made. Michelle is 100% correct.

One of the seminars our students must attend as a graduation requirement is Animal Behavior. The guy who does the seminar is a top trainer and great speaker, and the students who actually PAY ATTENTION to him learn a lot!

The most recent seminar was this past Thursday. On Friday, we got in a 6-month Tzu for her first grooming. Her owner had been bringing her to "visit" us for a few minutes off and on for months and I kept telling her puppy needed to get started, but she's a fruitcake and wouldn't listen. Needless to say, puppy was an absolute nightmare, even tranquilized (when the owner gets a tranquilizer for a puppy that young before a first groom, you KNOW you're in trouble!). I figured this would be a good chance to demonstrate some of what they had heard the night before, and I was right.

The student assigned managed to do the basics and get her mats (not many, but tough ones) out with a LOT of de-mat, patience and determination. Puppy was bathed and dried with little fanfare, and then they called me in for the finish. At this point, the tranquilizer had worn off and puppy had turned into "Jaws". I tried most everything I knew and finally said, "All of you...move back." I took the noose off puppy, scruffed her, and put her on her back with my other hand on her tummy as I said, "NO! Be still!" I was amazed she actually didn't struggle, but after a minute I righted her and she went for me again. THREE Alpha rolls were required before she really "got it", but after that I was able to teach them what I needed to do on this particular dog (owner's requests) to finish the groom.

At the end, she was all over me like a bad rash...I was her favorite human in the world! (How fast one becomes Alpha with the right training!) She will likely forget before we see her again, but she WILL be reminded and I think will remember quickly at that point.

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Exactly- Now I could see if one of my dogs protested a little, but not a growl if a total stranger tried to pick them up- but lets face it- who is strong enough to pick up a 80 pound plus dog too. BUT= THEY know from puppyhood- when they were smaller, they can be picked up and that is that. Sheer size may have change ( I could not lift Zubin if my life depended on it for example- but then again- who knows- the day Femka seisured and I had to throw her in a whirlpool to get the bio spot off her- she did not question it at all- and she was 87 pounds! -adrenaline I guess).

But these are the children- that live in the house, Izzy knows their intent, and this was a dominance display. Even my dogs know what a grooming table is.. Its the same principle. And they know to stand still in a bath and blow dry- I did the battle, and lets face it- sighthounds are usually passive, but still- they know.

( posting two videos how to dremel a large dogs nail- while people like Pam will know its elementary- it shows- I get submission. ) Submission is not a bad thing-

"Video number one is how to get the feel how to dremel. Its done on Lindsey- white nails, clear pink quick easy to see but to show you the process.

http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=b5h114&s=4

Then Zubin- thick black nails- my big boy- see how the same principles apply. And shows you how the nails looks.

http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=30w7ds6&s=4

Note the discription of the upside down U with darkness in the center indicating the quick is soon. Also notice- I do not hold the dremel but remove it back slightly frequently so as not to heat the nail due to friction. "

Now they know actually my clicking- I am watching you- cooperate is really what it means. I call it distraction but its already a language with my dogs.

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Izzy is for sure trying to dominate my girls. They've (my kids) been playing outside almost all day so we haven't had any more episodes. But I'm watching Izzy like a hawk.

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Payslee was a wild child too..I don't have children, but she made it VERY clear what she wanted to do, and what she didn't..And what she didn't want to do was take a bath, get brushed, or have the blow-dryer on her..She acted awful and like Pam said, went all "Jaws" on me when I was trying this! I did as the others suggested and made it very clear to her that I was NOT going to give up, and I WAS going to win this battle! It took about 5 minutes of her squealing, flailing, biting at me, and acting ugly..but then she quit, and has not given me any problems since then. She is still not a superfan of the Metal comb, but she doesn't act ugly about it anymore. Like Michelle and Pam said, with a few really GOOD, STERN corrections, they get it, and you usually don't have to fight them on it anymore..Good luck, oh, and Welcome to the Wild Child club! lol. :praying:

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i have this problem with hunter. except he actually bites the crap out of you. a friend here at work that is a trainer basically told me to do the same thing that michelle said to do and that seems to be helping, but every once in a while he thinks he's in charge and has to be reminded that biting is not ok.

i think that his previous owners didn't have any clue how to deal with shih-tzus and like a lot of people just let him get away with everything until he got aggressive and then of course he ended up in a shelter instead of trying to find out why he was being like this. so now i have to deal with the aggression that he has probably;ly been used to dealing out for a while now.

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Oh man, I was thinking her training class started THIS Monday but it's NEXT Monday.

Yesterday she "tried" to growl at my 12 yr old but she told her "NO" firmly and she stopped. Then she didn't do it again toward her the rest of the day. Didn't try it with my other 3 either but they weren't around her much as they were busy playing with friends.

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i just had to put michelle's advice into action tonight. i got my detangler today, so i thought i'd try it out. well all i did was point the spritzer bottle at hunters foot and he started squirming and trying to bite me, i got one done and went for the next one and he got me good and slipped out of my hands. so i went for him and he bit me good, so alpha roll it was and then i immediately took him and put him in teh bathroom for about 2 minutes. i brought him out and he was much more subdued and let me finish him up.

however, he was PISSED. he went down to the landing at the bottom of the steps and would not come back up. i enticed him with a treat and he came up and got it and then straight back down to eat it. then he curled up and went to sleep. he's never done that before. so about a half hour later he got up and came up and laid down on the couch next to me. i guess he's not mad anymore. lol

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i just had to put michelle's advice into action tonight. i got my detangler today, so i thought i'd try it out. well all i did was point the spritzer bottle at hunters foot and he started squirming and trying to bite me, i got one done and went for the next one and he got me good and slipped out of my hands. so i went for him and he bit me good, so alpha roll it was and then i immediately took him and put him in teh bathroom for about 2 minutes. i brought him out and he was much more subdued and let me finish him up.

however, he was PISSED. he went down to the landing at the bottom of the steps and would not come back up. i enticed him with a treat and he came up and got it and then straight back down to eat it. then he curled up and went to sleep. he's never done that before. so about a half hour later he got up and came up and laid down on the couch next to me. i guess he's not mad anymore. lol

Well- I would not say pissed.. LOL- more like ego down a peg of " but I thought I ran this house... hmph.."- and yes a sulk is also an attempt to get attention. As my mother use to say on a say " go ahead- you are only wasting your own time.." lol

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well, his sulking worked for only a minute. after that i had some serious internet surfing to do, so i left him at the bottom of the stairs. next time he wants to play that game, i won't try and get him to come up with a treat. i can see how he would take that as a reward for sulking.

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well, his sulking worked for only a minute. after that i had some serious internet surfing to do, so i left him at the bottom of the stairs. next time he wants to play that game, i won't try and get him to come up with a treat. i can see how he would take that as a reward for sulking.

Exactly! And he would have forced you to " make amends" so to speak...

Edited by borzoimom
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