Getting Your Dog to Obey

[Claudiabehr 3]

As Panda has gotten older, I've given her fewer treats to get the behaviors I want to see and she actually understands not only quite a few commands, but has an arsenal of tricks to melt the hard-hearted. However, when she doesn't feel like doing something (I guess this is what it's about), she simply sits there and stares at me. Really. Just stares at me with this blank stare. Months ago, I thought she just might be brain damaged, but after all these months, I realize that's not it. Has anyone ever seen this type of response? What do you do? I get frustrated because it might be something like "let's go to bed" which she usually scoots up the stairs about but on a particular occasion, will just sit there and stare at me. If I raise my voice, up she goes, but I don't want to do this.

I'm hoping for her to train as a therapy dog, but if at a year, this is what I'm getting, it seems out of the question.

[xr4man 7]

yeah hunter's the same way. he knows "sit, come, down, stand, up, off, etc." but sometimes he just looks at me like i'm stupid. the only thing he ALWAYS does without question is "go to bed"

[mr.coffee 364]

LOL! I think that's pretty much a Shih Tzu thing. Harley is the same way, he knows more commands and subtleties of language than I can count offhand. But, if he doesn't feel like playing along, forget it. Come? Sure, if there's food involved. Haha! He's a thick-headed little bastage when he wants to be and there've been more times that I had to go collect him up and carry him where I wanted him...

-m

[Dakotah's momma 0]

I am not sure yet cause we are only in our 4th week of training. Sometimes she says we need to find another word such as come will be replaced with whatever word we choose since come has become a very common word. I do wish you luck tho. Right now Dakotah does listen pretty good.

Better go as my granddaughter is playing with the soap.

[MisterMom 11]

It is part of your training - as in I'm thinking about what's for dinner, leave me alone !! :D

[kelly943 0]

yup i really think its the shih tzu stubbornness..roxie does it to me all the time..she is highly food motivated..and she will only do something the first time, any more than that is asking too much! sometimes she'll just sit there and stare at me like..oh no! i'm not falling for that trick again lol.

[miachue 1]

Mochi does that sometimes too LOL I swear he thinks that he would only obey a command if he gets a treat!! Brat =) :D

[loewenthal.anna 4]

I wouldn't AT ALL be afraid to raise your voice to get the response you want, Claudia. With little dogs we often get sucked into thinking "Oh, but they're so little! I don't want to scare them!" and the result is unequivocally a dog who *knows* it can get away with murder by sinking it's heels in the mud.

Picture all the truly poorly behaved little suckers you know, now try to recall how the owner dealt with it. In my experience close to 100% of the time the owner is either cooing commands at the dog over and over (commands need to be given once nicely, and then firmly if they aren't responding but NEVER over and over, or they lose their meaning) or talking to the observers making apologies for their dog "Oh, she's still young, she's only 3!" or "Good thing he's little, right?" . . . what these owners fail to realize is that they are *allowing* the poor behavior, and rewarding inaction by not enforcing commands.

NOT that this is what you're doing, I just wanted to give a picture for why it is SO important to train even a 3lb dog, and how important tone of voice can be in an instance where physical domination truly IS "too much". Using myself as a model: We ALL know that I have trouble with Cash Money on the training front and during our "learning sessions" it is rare he'll do anything the first time he's asked. In an environment where you are teaching "new" commands (or ones they aren't great about) there's room to be patient and use treat rewards, absolutely.

That said, when it comes to behavior out in the real world I'm far less patient (although I only ask things of him that I know he understands. Where Lolly could be put on a down-stay without issue, I'll settle for a simple "sit" from Money). The commands I WILL NOT TOLERATE him ignoring are "sit" (for a treat, or when another dog passes us) or recall when he's off leash. He get's one nice 'come on, let's go!" and if he doesn't immediately start making his way back to me my voice goes up and I start "pushing" him with my body language. We've had occasions where I've been loud enough to startle people walking by, at least once they see how little the critter is that I'm yelling at. But I would rather confuse a stranger than allow even a dog as small as Money to "get away" with being bad simply because of his size.

It's true that Shih-Tzu can be incredibly stubborn, and I know well that "blank stare" Panda is giving you (ironically, it usually comes from Lolly who already IS a therapy dog) but there is still a fine line between allowing more response time because they're hard-headed, and using it as an excuse for poor behavior.

If it help any, I ALWAYS use treats for "go to bed" . . . I don't really care that my three have come to "expect" a cookie for following that one, so long as it get's done. With "sit" I usually start enforcing that with a leash on them, it just makes it easier to correct because pulling up on the collar will naturally cause a dog to want to plant their butt. With Money, sometimes I'll go to give him and Lolly a cookie and he will outright REFUSE to sit ("politely", which is an addendum I added to get him to STAY sitting until I hand him the cookie) and in that scenario I simply don't give him the cookie. I won't even OFFER him a cookie usually for the rest of the day just to prove my point.

I'd say if Panda is usually obedient with out any harsh tones you should ABSOLUTELY be able to get her groomed as a therapy dog. She sounds like a very naturally obedient dog to me, which makes it 100 million times easier. Lolly didn't test until she was 2.5 years, partially because we didn't train actively for it (and it took that long to have the command set down) and partially because an older, more mature dog is always easier to handle during that test than a 1 year old. You've got PLENTY of time to iron out her inconsistencies, if you ask me.

[emmasmom 14]

Yeah, we get that "glazed" over look here too, from Emma especially.

[mr.coffee 364]

Unfortunately, while I "know" what I should do to encourage/enforce better behavior from Harley, I've gotten a bit slack as the months have slipped by. I could probably stand to get back on track with clicking and treating instead of both of us settling for profuse praise. When he's on leash in a controlled environment he does really well responding to casual commands...out & about not so much. The good, I never have him off leash out there and can force the issue as needed. The bad, no matter how good he does at home and how long we've been going over what he ~should~ do, it's all out the window.

-m

[Seastar 44]

You have a shih tzu who is being a shih tzu! If I am dead serious about asking them to do anything, I drop the word COOKIE and get instant results. That's because I am a human, being a human. That is, easily trainable by small, stubborn dogs.

[emmasmom 14]

:D :D

[Ozzy'sMommy 5]

uh yeah i call this the "you expect me to do what?" look....though it can mean other things depending on what you've asked.

me - "ozzy get the ball"

ozzy - "whatever mom, you get the ball"

me - "oz let's go to bed"

ozzy - "i'm comfy right here, thanks"

me - "ozzy we've been at the dog park for TWO HOURS, time to go!"

ozzy - "peace mom, catch ya later"

classic shih tzu attitude...they know EXACTLY what you want and how to do it, they just don't feel like it, lol.

[Boo and Gidgys Mom 2]

YEP.... Gaboo has me trained really well.

[Claudiabehr 3]

Thank you all for letting me know yet again, that all is okay........when I'm through getting up off the floor where I fell in hysterics after reading most of these posts, I'd like to respond to some individually. Been driving for hours, though and want to get some rest.

[Kae+Gizzy 5]

If we mention the word Treat Gizmo is alert and ready for whatever he has to do to get one. He also reacts the same way when someone mentions Feet or Sweet or Neat...

Bella on the other hand I thinks speaks a different language to us, maybe Chinese. She always looks completely puzzled as if to say "I No Speak English!" She refuses to work for a treat and will sit there looking at us waiting patiently for it. She won't budge. It's like work is beneath her or something. We always cave and give her one anyway, she is too cute for words!

[Sally 1]

I only train in a quiet voice and only positively. Trudy is easy to train. Most dogs are. We just have to find what works for each one. They are intelligent. It is just up to us to know what to do. They love to learn.

[Luna 8,676]

You know, I have owned and trained a LOT of dogs in my life, but I have to admit that Tzu are definitely "different" in this respect.

My Dad raised Pointers when I was little and they were quite easy to train, ditto my Poodles (of course, I'm pretty sure that Poodles are part human anyway...). The Poms not-so-much but I could find ways to get them to do what I wanted reliably....which usually involved a food reward.

Many trainers and handlers (including the revered George Alston) insist that food should NEVER be used for training and my hat is off to all of them. Obviously, they never tried to get a lazy Pom to show without liver bait or whatever lol.

As far as the Tzu go, they really do seem to think about things and decide exactly what they want to do before they respond. If they decide to go for it they go for it with gusto! If they decide they'd rather not, fuggedaboudit. The breed's stubbornness is legendary for good reason.

Many years ago, my mentor - a professional handler - took a Shih Tzu to show. She did beautifully in the ring for about three weeks and then suddenly decided she wasn't going to walk for him anymore: the second he put the lead on her, she sat down and that was that! She would walk for her owner, for me, for pretty much anyone else but not for him. She was sent home for a month and her breeder/owner showed her without any problems. She came back and the second he took out the lead, she sat down again. She eventually was finished by another handler in short order.

In case you are questioning, there was absolutely no abuse involved - he truly doted on her and after she was retired she lived out the rest of her life at his house. She had just decided for some reason known only to her that she wasn't going to show for a particular person. After she went to live with him he took her for long strolls in the neighborhood daily and she just loved that.

Someone asked me not long ago why I picked Tzu as "my" breed, and I told them, "...because they are beautiful, charming and give me a run for my money without driving me nuts...most of the time!". I think that pretty much sums it up.

[tzuhouse 4]

I so agree that each dog is different and you may have to adjust somewhat with each one. My Josie is VERY obedient until it comes to the "come" command and in a controlled environment she is awesome, but coming from outside to inside, not so much. SO, I have had to adapt because that is a command I will NOT let her "get by" on. I call and click (that is the only time I use a clicker), the boys come running in a millisecond, Josie continues to sniff, I click once more and if she doesn't come, I go GET her. She certainly knows, but wants to stay out as long as possible....but IF I ever don't follow through, she takes even longer next time....so we continually work on quickness on coming in. I NEVER call her in unless I am READY to go get her if she doesn't come. She is getting so much better since I started this....she knows it is happening, so might as well do it on my own. I ALWAYS give them a treat if I click....If I just call casually (meaning, come if you want, stay if you want), I don't treat. This has helped too....they know one is more important than the other.

I now use that method when training any time.....if I EXPECT compliance, I enforce it, even if I physically have to MAKE it happen. Even if I give a down command and someone doesn't comply, I physically put them in a down if they don't do it on the third command. Of course, Maddy is VERY food motivated and won't do much on his own without it (which is why he will probably never pass the Delta Society Therapy Dog eval, because you can't use treats in the eval, but he will pass the Pets for Life, because you CAN use treats). Rudy is still learning, but I have found for some reason he does not LIKE to do downs....not sure why, but I have to be persistent on that one. He will sit perfectly ANY time I ask....just have to keep working.

Anyway, this is what is working for me....so just a thought for you.

Most importantly......like children....follow through is KEY....if you aren't going to follow through on a command, then don't ask it !! :mf_seehearspeak:

[meganpatricia 0]

it's amazing how stubborn these little guys are... I bought and devoured Cesar Milan's book 'Raising the perfect Dog' last week, and by the end felt rather disheartened by the fact that none of the puppies he raised as examples of perfect training seemed to demonstrate any of the quirks of my little guy! Even the bulldog pup he raised was easier than Toby! Lately, Toby's new thing is to lay down in the middle of the sidewalk during walks. I dont know if he wants to be carried or just wants to wait until another member of the public stops to adore him, but I have been *this* close to just dragging his fluffy little butt down the street whether he wants to get up and walk or not. It seems so hard, and yet so important to stay firm and positive all at once!

[Kae+Gizzy 5]

it's amazing how stubborn these little guys are... I bought and devoured Cesar Milan's book 'Raising the perfect Dog' last week, and by the end felt rather disheartened by the fact that none of the puppies he raised as examples of perfect training seemed to demonstrate any of the quirks of my little guy! Even the bulldog pup he raised was easier than Toby! Lately, Toby's new thing is to lay down in the middle of the sidewalk during walks. I dont know if he wants to be carried or just wants to wait until another member of the public stops to adore him, but I have been *this* close to just dragging his fluffy little butt down the street whether he wants to get up and walk or not. It seems so hard, and yet so important to stay firm and positive all at once!

Aww Toby sounds just like Gizmo. He hated going for walks if the weather isn't to his liking. I try to be firm with him but he just lays there and does his impression of a pancake dog.

It's embarrassing when people are around, they sometimes think he is injured or something, I have to explain my dog is a brat!

I must add that since having Bella he is getting so much better and now it's a race to see who can get to the door first. He looks forward to going out now..but not so much if it's raining, maybe i should buy him a Umbrella hat :dede:

[Claudiabehr 3]

Well, the fact that many of your pups are driving you mad is very encouraging for me............nothing like misery loving the company of others....so I will approach Ms. P with renewed patience and confidence that eventually I'll be repaid by a little dog who respects my firm consistency. She is, after all, less than a year old and I think many changes can happen before I would stop calling her a puppy. Thanks to all who contributed. It's been very helpful.

[bengietheshihtzu 0]

LOL....MP i can relate to Toby just sitting in the middle of the sidewalk, Bengie does this all the time. At first I thought it was due to him being tired or it too hot out but now he sometimes doesn't even make it to the mailbox before he decides he wants to lay down. Most of the time a light pull on the leash will get him moving again, but if not I tell him its time to run (he loves sprinting) and off we go.

The only time I had an issue was when i took him about a mile down the local bike path and he decided to quit on me. With some coaxing he would get up and walk about 10 feet before plopping down again. In this case he got slung over my shoulder and carried back.

[mimi07 19]

I certainly can't tell you the right way. Mine not only won't give me the stare, Izzy will actually turn her back to me and ignore me completly. At first I thought that maybe she was losing her hearing, then my husband would tell her the same thing and she would do what he asked. We are still at that stage and working on it.

[Dakotah's momma 0]

So this is what is ahead eh? We are in puppy training and we just got done with come. She said Come is such a common word to find a word that does work. I watch my GD and so I am always saying come here. We have a friend who gave us the spanish word for here and we use that and he knows it. Our instructor also said if they dart out do not run after them but get on the ground and call their names and act like it is a game and use your command for come. Someone in class had to use it when her dogs got loose from her GD and they were headed towards the road. She got on the ground and pounded it and used her command and they came back to play. Can not use a angry voice but the high pitched one for game playing.

So far we have learned sit,down,take it, drop it, leave it, Aqui(here) and stay. I think this week is wait and some other commands.

I thank you for letting me know tho that sometimes they can be very stubborn much like the men in the family. Oops did I say that? I will blame it on Dakotah.