I know they are stubborn, but....really?! (update 9.30.14)

[Curvygurl73 197]

Maybe I am doing it wrong....? They are 3.5 months old, and we have had them for a month (Raven) and a month and a half (Freya) and I know small dogs take longer and Tzus are some of the worst with housebreaking! But, they don't in any way seem to grasp the concept that they should not pee in the house. We will go outside and do our business, then come in and literally....20 minutes of play time, and someone is squatting to dribble a bit on the floor!! And with no shame....when i see it and give a firm "NO" and run over to stop it, either one of them will just continue to do their business as if I'm not an insane lunatic that I feel I am becoming! (hehe)

We don't use potty pads because the breeder didn't (she just had them kenneled or in the backyard as far as she has told me) and therefore, they believe potty pads to be a delicious toy for them to destroy immediately! I got the potty patch and put it on our deck right outside the door, and after sitting with Freya for an hour one evening, finally managed to get her to pee on it, and treated her immediately. Now she will pee on it in the middle of the night so I don't have to hoof her down the very large flight of stairs into our backyard, but any other time she considers it a great place to hang out on the deck and eat flowers. I haven't ever gotten Raven to pee on it. He also enjoys laying on it and eating flowers on the deck.

I love our house, but it definitely wasn't made for housebreaking puppies!! Its a split level and the primarily living space is on the second level. We have a deck off the kitchen/dining area with a very steep set a stairs that goes into our backyard. My thought with the potty patch, was to teach them to use that on the deck for both ease of potty training, as well as the reality of snow in Alaska. Once winter gets here, our backyard becomes mostly unusable and even if DH snowplowed a path for them in the yard; the stairs are treacherous!! Definitely wouldn't want pups trying to navigate those with snow/ice on them, much less breaking my own neck with the umpteen times a day I have to take them out!

They are kept in their playpen or kennel unless its supervised playtime. We take them out upon waking in the morning, after naps, after eating, and after playing for longer than 30 minutes. We use the command "go potty" that both of them seem to understand. There are a few times when accidents have occurred and I know very clearly it was our mistakes for waiting to long. However, many more are the times when it just doesn't make sense!! they have JUST peed outside, and then they pee inside....smdh!! If we don't figure out something soon, I think DH's head might do this:

I am happy to hear what I'm doing wrong, and all thoughts, suggestions, tips that you have all fought long and hard for!!!

Edited October 1, 2014 by Curvygurl73

[Sophie's Haven 17,464]

I have 7 and Lexie makes #4 and she came into our home at 12 weeks and after a year I thought enough is enough but one day out of the blue like night and day it clicked. Now she is the best one of all in her potty habits. Beleive me I thought she would never get the concept. Just keep at it..........the potty pad sounds great for your living conditions with the style of home and your weather. They will get the hang of it. Sometimes my guys when they are out in the yard and they potty they do not always empty so I will hang around a few more minutes as something will always get their attention and that is far more important then peeing.

[Pawz4me 6,802]

I think the challenge of house training is increased about one hundred fold when you're trying to train two puppies at once. You're going to need lots of extra patience -- well above and beyond the level it would take to train just one at a time. And they're still really babies. I wouldn't expect much in the way of bladder control before four months. Living where you do, and expecting the kind of winter you describe -- I think I'd work on training them to potty pads. You can get hard plastic holders for the pads so that they can't drag them around and chew on them. It would be spendy using potty pads for two dogs through a long winter, but . . some things are worth the money!

Edited July 15, 2014 by Pawz4me

[nyctzu 91]

You need a wee pad and wee pad holder. They are about the same age as Lucey and she peed literally like 15 times throughout the day. I changed the wee pad maybe 3-4 times a day. She only plays with the thicker quilted wee pads and not the thin ones. So I switched to the thin cheap ones, I can get like 500 for $60 or so, but I have to change it often.

She also poops 4 times a day, sometimes within 30 minutes of one another.

so I can't imagine letting her out every time!!

hoping it will get better when she is older.

[Vicki 8,173]

My puppies also chewed up Potty Pads and I had them in some sort of holders. I also had a Potty Patch already, so put that in their play pen when they were little. They did get used to using the Potty Patch pretty easy. One thing I found with it that was VERY useful to me was to put a potty pad underneath the grate to absorb the urine. That made it SO MUCH EASIER to clean up. I'd just change the potty pad as necessary.

Most of my guys were relatively easy to potty train using the doggie door. My male is a marker though and has to wear a band all the time he's free in the house. You should see what a drippy mess he can make with his band on when HE goes out the doggie door with it on!

Animal Cracker was the only one I really had difficulties with. Once I caught her in the act and scolded her, yet she didn't stop. I went and got her and took her to the spot she'd just made and showed it to her and scolded her more. (I didn't rub her face in it though (but thought about it, but didn't really want to have to bathe her just then ) I scolded her profusely and then poked her out the doggie door. She hasn't done it again since.

I felt horrible about doing that, but..... it worked!

Dog (as well as child) training has changed so much in all my years!

Vicki

Edited July 16, 2014 by Vicki

[Vicki 8,173]

I know, I know.....Shame on me!

Vicki

[chrdso 500]

Animal Cracker was the only one I really had difficulties with. Once I caught her in the act and scolded her, yet she didn't stop. I went and got her and took her to the spot she'd just made and showed it to her and scolded her more. (I didn't rub her face in it though (but throught about it, but didn't really want to have to bathe her just then ) I scolded her profusely and then poked her out the doggie door. She hasn't done it again since.

I felt horrible about doing that, but..... it worked!

Vicki

I think scolding actually works!

When Zeedo was a bit younger and decided the piano leg was his new pee area, we did something similar to what you did. Pointed to the spot, stern "no-no", scolded and placed him on his pee pad. He knew we were upset. He actually stopped.

He was trained pretty easily though because his breeder had done a good job. He will go outside or on his pee pads if he just has to....My previous Tzu was very hard to train. But Zeedo is smart and seems to understand. We also had him in puppy class very early so he tends to follow commands (except come- we have to say food or chicken and he'll come- lol).

When we just got him we would give him a treat every time he went potty. Slowly as he got the routine we decreased the treats then stopped.

Edited July 16, 2014 by chrdso

[ShihTzusAreCute 3,662]

Vicky:Yep, scolding worked for us too(and it still works when Lexie misbehaves in some way). I should film her when I scold her, she is hilarious and I have to fight to keep a straight face
Crystal: I also think you should get potty pad holders maybe one like this? http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=11873 Also maybe try using one those sprays design to stimulate the puppies to pee in a certain place. Good luck!

[Curvygurl73 197]

I have also scolded. Raven looks so sad when i do; however, he still has had accidents. Freya doesn't care. When she peed on the carpet the other day, and I scolded her, she simply looked at me with a blank face! HA! Completely unconcerned with the scolding. Completely unconcerned with treats. Oy vey this girl is going to kill me!! lol

Roxana, i will look into the potty pads. I did use the scent spray on the potty patch that is on the deck....Freya happily licked it off, but felt no need to pee on it!! lol she is my trouble child for sure!!

So let me also ask ya'll this....other than the pee scent spray...how do you teach them to go potty on the potty pad? If they have already peed on the floor, and you pick them up and put them on the pad....? What does that do since they most likely don't need to pee anymore? I've done that with the potty patch, but again...they've already peed, so they look at me like "why do i have to stand on this mom?" Its been 13 years since i've had a puppy...i'm so out of practice and can't remember how I did any of it back then!! lol

[Pawz4me 6,802]

What I'd do if one of them has an accident is use the absorbent side of a pad to soak up just a little of it, and then leave that pad out so it's got a scent to attract them back.

[Luna 8,676]

The second you add another puppy to the mix you have just increased your house-training headaches by about 100-fold. Unless you are willing to house-train then individually (literally) you are in for a loooooooooooooong process. I used-to try to house-train litters of puppies. HA! Now I don't bother until I'm down to the one I'm keeping and if I decide to keep two it takes forever. People always say, "Well, if I can't take the puppy home until s/he's 12 weeks old will you have him/her all house-trained then?" There was a time when I tried to be gentle on this one but now I just laugh and say, "No. Have YOU ever tried to house-train 5 puppies all at once?" That usually settles it, lol.

[nyctzu 91]

So let me also ask ya'll this....other than the pee scent spray...how do you teach them to go potty on the potty pad? If they have already peed on the floor, and you pick them up and put them on the pad....? What does that do since they most likely don't need to pee anymore? I've done that with the potty patch, but again...they've already peed, so they look at me like "why do i have to stand on this mom?" Its been 13 years since i've had a puppy...i'm so out of practice and can't remember how I did any of it back then!! lol

The first week you really need to watch them 24 hours a day. I just watched her, as soon as she circled, I picked her up and put her on wee pad. and treated her. If i didn't catch her circling, I yelled from far away to startle her and she stopped peeing a bit, and then I picked her up and put her on wee pad so that she finished on wee pad. After eating, she doesn't get to go out of her play pen (which has a wee pad inside) until she peed. Waiting for poop can be forever but yep, I bring my laptop to bathroom sit by her and wait and wait….

[Curvygurl73 197]

What I'd do if one of them has an accident is use the absorbent side of a pad to soak up just a little of it, and then leave that pad out so it's got a scent to attract them back.

oh....that's a good idea!! Thanks!

Now, a follow up question to potty pads. My past experience with my Pepper girl, and her brother (that was owned by my best friend) was that they were trained on potty pads. However, this seemed to translate into any small area rug that was roughly the same size/shape being a "potty pad"....have the ones who use potty pads found this to be true? They wouldn't potty on the regular carpet, or the bare floor...but pop a decorative area rug down at the door, in the bathroom, or kitchen, and it would have pee spots on it in moments!! ...little buggers! That is why my original thought was to use the potty patch, and to have it right outside the door on the deck. 1. because it looks/feels different than a rug, and 2. having it outside the door so they don't associate that its ever okay to go "inside". ....am I striving too high with that hope???

[Pawz4me 6,802]

Yogi's the only dog I've ever pad trained (all my others have been way too big to use a pad!), but he totally understands that the pad is the only place he's allowed to go inside. We don't have many rugs, though. One in the foyer, one at the back door and one at the door into the garage.

[nyctzu 91]

yes, i had that problem in the beginning but only occasionally when she confused weepad with bathroom rug. but it only happened twice, so i sprayed with the pee deterent, and now she loves the bathroom rug or any outside rug as her 'bed'. she brings all the toys to bathroom rug and play there. she also chews the bathroom rugs which i don't care about if it keeps her busy. I have those heavy bathroom rug, so she doesn't really do damage to them. I still tell her no! when i catch her, but it's the least of my worries.

Now she just knows there is only one wee pad location and hasn't peed elsewhere.

[Vicki 8,173]

I'm happy to hear that others have used the "scolding" too. After I'd posted, I felt bad that I'd admitted it publically, but did so as that was what worked for Animal Cracker.

Back in my childhood days (a LONG LONG time ago) training methods were so different than they are now. Kids in school were often sent to the Principal's Office for discipline, which I'd heard besides a good spanking from the Principal, could include a few minutes with the "shoe kicking machine". Then said child would have to face their parents after school. That was usually much worse than the visit to the Principal's Office.

Thank You guys! I feel better now.

Vicki

[Sophie's Haven 17,464]

Just to let you know.............not all days are fun and wonderful when you have 7 and I have to admit when I have a couple do something that is out of order I will call TIME OUT and group them together and give them ALL a scolding.......that way they can not come back at me and say YOU NEVER TOLD ME THAT............ Hey makes me feel better.

[Vicki 8,173]

Thanks Jeannine and I know you have one of the softest hearts!

Hugs!

Vicki

[Luna 8,676]

Just to let you know.............not all days are fun and wonderful when you have 7 and I have to admit when I have a couple do something that is out of order I will call TIME OUT and group them together and give them ALL a scolding.......that way they can not come back at me and say YOU NEVER TOLD ME THAT............ Hey makes me feel better.

Gad, Jeannine...I do the same thing. I have always said that every dog in my house will answer to "DAMMIT", and I'm sure it's because that's the word they hear before I start laying down the law, lol. It's got to the point where it's useless to try to yell a name, because we have so many that I'm like a mother with a whole lot of kids...I just start going through names until I get the right one. Dammit works better.

[GMA 981]

Vicki, lawd knows Bosco gets scolded occasionally. Especially when he sneaks into the formal dining room and poops in the corner. I scold and say "No" as deep as I can, but he will still sneak in there when the gate is down.

[Harvey & Jessie's Mom 206]

After every play session they need to go out, they get stimulated! Same thing after eating. Harvey never wanted to use the potty pad, we left one by the door only to show him where we wanted him to go when he needed to go outside but he never peed on it. LOL he just picked it up and carried it around the house.

Our trainer said when there is an accident in the house you say nothing, you just bring the outside right away. This is what we did along with giving him a treat after each pee and poop. I also got EXTREMELY excited and in a high pitched voice praised him like crazy. I did this for 6 months and now he’s amazing, never has an accident.

Edited September 25, 2014 by Harvey's Mom

[Curvygurl73 197]

Oh man....Harvey's mom, i could only hope to have your experience!!! I know that with 2 furbabies, the potty training is harder. But daggum, some days I feel like my head is going to explode because their "accidents" don't make sense! When I posted this originally, they were 3.5 months old. They are now 6 months old and I really don't feel anything has "clicked" for them in this area!

I certainly don't expect perfection yet...I know that small dogs, and especially Tzu's can be harder. However, we do take them out after 30 minutes of play time, after each sleep time, 30 minutes after meals, and then any other time that doesn't fall into those categories is roughly every 1-2 hours (except night time). We treat and praise for potties outside...but they are both still having accidents. Now, mind you....i expect some accidents. But their's feel.....uncalled for i guess...? For example....the other day, they were both playing around on the deck (which has a potty patch on it that they do use) and Raven came running inside. He grabbed a quick drink from the water bottle and ran back to the bedroom. I followed because they aren't allowed to be in the bedroom's alone. By the time I got up, called for him as I was walking back, and he ran back out of the bedroom and back out the patio door....HE HAD PEED ON MY BEDROOM CARPET!!!! no rhyme or reason!!! He was outside with access to both the yard as well as the potty patch on the deck, and he chose to come inside and pee on the floor!????? Thats just one example, but Freya does similar things that don't make sense as just an "accident while learning". *sigh* i'm still baffled!

[Curvygurl73 197]

oh...by the way, I meant to say that Harvey is ADORABLE!!!! clearly, I love black beauties as well, but his face is ridiculous!!!! love!!!!