I feel funny - your thoughts, please!

[Luna 8,676]

Realistically, some dogs are not suited to be companions from birth, either by temperament or experience.  I have (luckily for me) never bred one, but I do HAVE one, and she is not improving with age.  I often think our Katy should just be put down and go to the rainbow bridge, but thus far I haven't had the heart to do it:  she had a rough start in life and I give her a lot of slack.  I was grooming her today and out-of-the-blue she went to bite me (I wasn't doing anything that hurt her).  I got my hand out of the way, but I have a nice 1" slit on my left forearm from one of her canines.  I don't think I will be breeding or showing much longer, but I don't need this.  To me, it's making excuses for bad breeding and raising.

 

[Amy0515 4,651]

A Ramble and Observation

Incredibly sad indeed and Luca has stayed on my mind all day and I keep returning hoping..praying something good comes out of this.

Luca has been through so much, Mare and her family cast into turmoil...I ask why again....I know things happen for a reason and in Gods on time he shows us the path....

I'm not going to preach so relax....But a higher power is a work for this poor dog.

Of all families in this world Mare was chosen down this path to intertwine only with Luca...to understand him...be his voice....for HE knew Mare would stand up for him, speak for what is right, correct injustice and get the help this little soul so desperately needs. 

Luca now has a guardian angel and it's Mare. I know you will do right by Luca...for you are the chosen one.

Ramble over with...off my soap box now 

Well said!!!  I totally agree!   

[Infamousmare 491]

My husband and I now understand that, not only are we not being heard, we will NEVER be heard.   They've lumped us in with -what I'm sure must be a large number- people who've just decided dog ownership wasn't for them.   My bullet-point emails, replete with information about who we've worked with, what we've done, what we've observed, asking to be able to discuss this in person - totally ignored.   Yet another reason to drop him at the adoption event - they won't have to talk to the crazy lady who insists this dog is aggressive.  

  I did send an email to the rescue and my hope is that I'll hear back before we return Luca; however, I don't know what they'll be able to do.   Still saying prayers, but also facing reality:  Luca is going to be billed as a "snuggle bunny, cutie-pie face" dog who is "good with kids".    He is likely going to go to a home with children.  
  I have thought so many times that *perhaps* we could make this work...and then he bites one of us or lunges and growls at one of the kids.   

But again, nobody is hearing that.   So, being the cantankerous people we are, my husband is going to bring Luca to his foster at the adoption event and is going to be very vocal about Luca not being good with kids.   He said he'll stand and give information to any interested parties about Luca's temperament, likes, dislikes, strong points and so on.   He won't be negative on Luca, he'll just tell the truth.    I am cracking up laughing just thinking about him interrupting the volunteers and saying, "Oh, well we've fostered him for a month now and we know a ton about him.  What would you like to know?".   We are also bringing with us all of the consultation notes from A Sound Beginning and our log of behaviors/feeding/etc.   I'm sure they'll go right in the trash, but I must know that, even to the end, I did everything I possibly could.

I did speak with a friend who works for a news station.   He said that we would very likely not only not get anywhere, but would likely be pegged as "bad guys" for daring to speak out against the "good guys" at the Humane Society.   Again, I have a ton of respect for what they do, but they can't just place dogs willy nilly and call it a good deed.   We all have to take responsibility for our actions, no matter how good our intentions are.   

Thank you, from the bottom of my heart, to all of you who foster and/or rescue these babies.   Thank you for doing the right thing, for being strict and saying no to placement with families, for being patient, kind, loving and providing these babies with a second chance at life and for caring so much about the well being of the dogs that you won't just place them anywhere and call it a happy ending.    I will defend you until my dying breath for being so picky about homes and being strict with regard to placing dogs in homes with children.  

[ParadiseTzu 11,275]

Very good idea to be so vocal and honest during this adootion event but know that you know that's just a temporary stop. Unfortunately its such a broken world we live in. We so want all dogs to have good homes or good situations, whether that be a forever home, foster home, rescue facility, local shelter etc. But the shelters, foster homes etc are staffed with mostly volunteers that for the most part have their heart in the right place, may be a little unknowledgeable about all they should be and are soooo busy dealing with crowded situations, they cant take the time to step back and see the whole picture with individual cases. Hence Pam/Luna was not thought to be a good foster home. And obviously  in your and Luca's case, the facility is all about getting their dogs placed.....for what 'bragging rights'?

Its a sad sad situation and am so very sorry. I will say some special prayers that God helps Luca find the right home.

ETA - for all the shelters, rescues, foster families that do such a good thorough job, I highly commend you. For those that give a rescue dog a good loving home - God Bless You!

Edited October 8, 2015 by ParadiseTzu

[Marlene 14,113]

 

 

Thank you, from the bottom of my heart, to all of you who foster and/or rescue these babies.   Thank you for doing the right thing, for being strict and saying no to placement with families, for being patient, kind, loving and providing these babies with a second chance at life and for caring so much about the well being of the dogs that you won't just place them anywhere and call it a happy ending.    I will defend you until my dying breath for being so picky about homes and being strict with regard to placing dogs in homes with children.  

Thank you so much for these comments.  Rescue has a bad reputation among many.....simply because we are so "hard-nosed".  It's just that we always put the dog first and people are not always used to facing that when they "want something" that is going to cost them a pretty penny and think they are doing something wonderful by offering to provide a home for a dog that needs one.  Then we put them through the 3rd degree in written and phone interviews, we want to see their house, their yard, meet and visit with everyone in the family.  "WHO DO WE THINK WE ARE!?!?

When you see what happens to so many, many dogs (we are in the shelters every day) abused, neglected, left un-attended so that they can stray (or worse yet - dumped on a back road somewheere) and not looked for when they do (stray).....it's hard to deal with.  Not to mention the people who suddenly develop an allergy, have to move, get divorced, become pregnant, have a senior dog that starts running up big vet bills and approach rescue to re-home their dog - it has become inconvenient....and on and on and on.

Many years ago we got our first purered Boxer from a BYB (we were COMPLETELY uneducated).  The litter was AKC registered which literally means almost nothing.  We lost that puppy at 4 months from Parvo.  We soon began looking for another and I called a breeder I somehow found.  She ripped me up one side and down the other for taking home a puppy too young, taking it out before vaccs were completed.  She made no effort to be nice to me or educate me but it was clear I would never be considered for any puppy she brought into the world.  That was 30 years ago and while I thought she was mean and nasty and why didn't she want one of her babies in our good home..........I now completely understand.  I wish I could find her and hug her.

I have shared your last paragraph with rescue friends.....I was sure you wouldn't mind and they always appreciate hearing those remarks.   You get it!

[Infamousmare 491]

 

 

Many years ago we got our first purered Boxer from a BYB (we were COMPLETELY uneducated).  The litter was AKC registered which literally means almost nothing.  We lost that puppy at 4 months from Parvo.  We soon began looking for another and I called a breeder I somehow found.  She ripped me up one side and down the other for taking home a puppy too young, taking it out before vaccs were completed.  She made no effort to be nice to me or educate me but it was clear I would never be considered for any puppy she brought into the world.  That was 30 years ago and while I thought she was mean and nasty and why didn't she want one of her babies in our good home..........I now completely understand.  I wish I could find her and hug her.

I have shared your last paragraph with rescue friends.....I was sure you wouldn't mind and they always appreciate hearing those remarks.   You get it!

 

I've heard people get upset with rescues and that they're super strict, but hadn't dealt with one.   On one hand, I wish your rescue had understood that most people don't know what they're getting into, when dogs are supposed to leave their mothers, and so on and had more gently told you to do your homework.   You didn't know.   On the other hand, I'm sure they've seen the absolute worst of humanity and just don't have the energy to sit down and explain things to every single, solitary person that comes knocking on their door.   

I WISH I'd gone through a rescue, who would've told me that kids and rescues do not always mix.   Yes, my kids are well-behaved.  Yes, we're quieter than most families.  But yes, my kids also have high pitched voices.  Their movements are less predictable.  They act and smell different than the adults do.   I WISH I'd thought to check out the negatives of shelter adoption.   I was busy researching breeds, researching the best way to adopt a dog - and everything I read was sunshine and roses.  Adopting is great!  Save a life!  Make a fur-ever friend!   Not, "Hey, wait a minute, you'd better think this through."    

Feel free to share that last paragraph.  I meant what I said - I'll tell anyone who will listen that those rules are in place for a reason.   I certainly wish we'd been told no - because I can tell you, I would have been goaded to do some research about WHY that answer was no...and I very likely would not have adopted a dog at this point in time (we would've donated money toward the care of rescues instead - which we've decided for the next several years is the best way we can help).     My husband and I are well educated adults who try very hard to make good choices - and we had NO IDEA what we were doing.   And we tried HARD to make this work (the HS knew what was going on during all of this, from his illness upon receipt to his aggression toward the end).     I am certain that there are thousands of people in our shoes who *think* they're doing a great thing that will be mutually beneficial for both the dog and their family.   Do you think people will listen if these things are explained?   Or am I being naive again?   

[Marlene 14,113]

 

 

I've heard people get upset with rescues and that they're super strict, but hadn't dealt with one.   On one hand, I wish your rescue had understood that most people don't know what they're getting into, when dogs are supposed to leave their mothers, and so on and had more gently told you to do your homework.   You didn't know.   On the other hand, I'm sure they've seen the absolute worst of humanity and just don't have the energy to sit down and explain things to every single, solitary person that comes knocking on their door.   

LOL -- the one who ripped me up one side and down the other was a breeder not a rescue.   A VERY Good breeder who had long ago "had it" with people like me.  But as I said we were completely naive and uneducated.  Years later (before the internet and rescues) we have gone to dog shows, lurked around champion breeders benches and been offended when we showed interest in their dogs.  I couldn't understand why we could not pick the puppy we wanted......if they considered us at all - they would choose the puppy for us.  Well Harrummpphh!  

But now I understand.  

One of the most uplifting people I ever heard speak was at a dog show - he was a breeder of French Bulldogs.  He did NOT give glowing, positive reports about his breed and wanted everyone to know they have a lot of health issues. He did not want any pup of his placed in a home where it would not have the best of healthy and preventative care.  That was when the first tiny flicker went off in my BB brain......WHY we had been treated the way we were. These people want to be responsible for bettering the breed not just producing more.

When I first got on the internet and joined forums I said some really stupid uneducated things because I didn't know any better.  I was in the midst of smart, experienced people who owned mixes, Champion Purebreeds, shelter dogs and rescue organization dogs.  I got flamed a few times before I started to get it.

Working in Rescue we get a lot of flaming from people who don't understand why things are done as they are......very often you have to bite your tongue and try to start the process of making a convert.

On purebred boards you will get a lot of people who think their dog is beautiful, smart, healthy and of good temperament.  They want to share those wonderful genes with the world and BREED!  They often get lambasted and told they are stupid, wrong and BAD.  With no follow-up those people slink away, are hurt and have learned nothing.  The very best thing we can do is keep them around, lurking, sharing, reading, seeing consequences and getting edjumacated  

Edited October 8, 2015 by Marlene

[Infamousmare 491]

Oops!  I'm sorry!   I just re-read your post and saw it was the BREEDER.   *and this is why I should not be let loose on the world without coffee*

You know, this is something that has bothered my husband and me since we began thinking about, researching and beginning the process of adopting - every single resource says to "find a reputable breeder".   Most people have not the first clue what makes a "reputable" breeder.   We certainly don't!    There are glossy websites with gorgeous photos and glowing reports about the stellar breed (or cross-breed) they specialize in.    Even if I went in person, aside from obvious problems like dogs kept in cages or tied to trees, I wouldn't know where to start, what to ask or how to judge.   I'm sure that even nefarious people are able to gloss it up for chumps like me.   I'm also sure that the good ones would rip me apart within the first minute of the interview; however, before this current unpleasantness, I would have felt very much like you did - bewildered and upset.   Now, if someone would have explained why they place dogs the way they do, I would have listened.  I am obedient that way, much like a dog.   :-D

I didn't even realize that AKC papers don't mean anything.  

So now I've found my new hobby:  reading up and learning as much as I can about breeders, rescues, normative canine behavior...  Then, in 10 years or so, perhaps I'll dive back in.   That way, if we get an aggressive one, I don't have to worry that he'll make off with a little one's fingers or toes.   The little one will be 14 by then - she can fend for herself!  

[Crinkly 15,586]

You know, i have been so unbelievably lucky.

I (we) decided we wanted a dog. I then read.  READ. Obsessively and compulsively.  Ceasar Milan.  His opponents. Gwen Bailey.  Faye Dunningham. Different Breeds.  Exercise requirements.  Behaviour.  Training.

Decided on a breed (this one) thensat back and started looking for breeders.

Ye gods, that was the hardest part! I got absolutely nowhere.  How DOES a complete novice make the right decision?

And you know what? Fortune smiled.  I had been chuntering, for weeks? months? about this at work, and one day D came over (she breeds Basenjis and Vizslas).  She has a desk in our open plan office about 12 feet from mine.  Apparently i had passed some silent non-interactive test, because she put me in touch with the breeder who eventually bred both Cato and Tara.  D and the breeder are great friends.  They go on holiday together.  Go to shows together (herding packs of basenji, vizslas, shih tzus and whippets).  They are off to Crufts this year with all 4 breeds.

i still cannot believe how it happened.

but don't worry @Infamousmare, you will find the perfect match.  How could you not, with the combined knowledge and experience of this forum?

it will be a completely different story from mine.  But it will be right for you.

Edited October 8, 2015 by Crinkly

[sophie1985 51]

Its not that hard if you are willing to wait for the puppy. I contacted a lot of breeders through americanshihtzu club referrals. Most u have to wait long time for new litters and don't know what you getting. But its doable and they're not so bad. Woulnt trust colorful websites so much.  I wasn't willing to wait for a show quality dog. I settled on one that came from genetically tested parents with great temperaments who had champions far down the lines. They wait wasn't that long and i was sold even though color wasn't right. If you have lots of time id go to dog shows or some other shih tzu meetings and get referrals through the word of mouth.

[Sophie's Haven 17,464]

In my opinion there is nothing sweeter then a Shih Tzu but even more sweeter is a rescue Shih Tzu. My house full all started with Sophie needing a playmate and went online and did a lot of checking sites out from Breeders to Shelters to Rescues and it broke my heart to know that so many throwaways are out there wanting a forever home that I decided to Foster which was so rewarding in all aspects. I have learned a lot over the past 5 years and tears have been shed not just from frustration but joy. Everyday is a joy just watching these babies of mine bloom........and sometimes I think organizations such as the HS and Rescues loose site in what is best for the dog and more in getting it placed in a home, thankfully not every place is like this but even just 1 gives a bad rap on the good ones.

Bless you and your family for all you have done and are attempting to do for Luca.  Luca will be in our prayers that he will put in the right hands of someone that give him one on one attention. This story just breaks my heart.................

[Luna 8,676]

I have a website just to be "out there" in the digital world.

We do not breed often and have puppies available all the time. When we DO have puppies, prospective owners have to jump through MY hoops to purchase one...and yes; I do keep track of them.  Show me the money?  Get lost.  You get to buy a puppy when all my research and interviews indicate to me that you'll either have that puppy for the rest of his/her life, or you will return the dog to me if you can't care for it any more (shit happens).   And if my "gut" suggests to me for a single second you aren't the home for one of them...you go home puppy-less.

 

 

[Marlene 14,113]

Can I give you a hug Pam....since I can't reach the others who have bred and dumped the dogs I work with....but you DO remind me of the first genuine classy Boxer breeder we contacted....and I say that in the most respectful and understanding way.

I cannot even imagine being involved in an "all breed rescue".....my inbox would be filled three times over if I was available to any and all breeds.

The purebred Boxer breeders I have been exposed to in the last several years....OF COURSE take back any pup they breed and place from their kennel.  And some of them, depending on where they live and how critical the needs are - take back a shelter pure bred dog "who needs them".

I LOVE your comment "shit happens"  -  been there, done that mostly in family life.  That was a popular bumper sticker way back when - but boy do I wish I had one to slap on my fridge.

[Marlene 14,113]

Watching and wondering Mare...........what was the outome?

[Crinkly 15,586]

Watching and wondering Mare...........what was the outome?

Me too!

how are you all doing @infamousmare ?

 

 

[Infamousmare 491]

So it's been almost 2 weeks since Luca went back to his foster.   Actually, he is with another foster who has no other dogs and lives alone - she wants to work with him intensively.  I was in contact with her for the first few days, but I heard nothing more after that.    Honestly?   I miss him.  When he was good, he was very good.   Luca was such a smart little guy and I liked having his funny little face around.   However, there are things I don't miss.  I don't miss wondering when he was going to get into one of his aggressive moods.   The kids, who cry every time one of our puppy-sitting charges leaves after staying with us for a few days, do not miss him.   They loved him but became increasingly afraid of him.    That speaks volumes to me.  

We have run into some of the other Shih Tzus in the neighborhood on our daily walks (now sans little Luca) and they've asked after Luca.  All of them were sad to hear that he'd gone back, but one immediately said, "He wasn't a  normal Shih Tzu".   One thing I've noticed is that these fur babies are SO different than Luca.  They come bounding up with fully wagging tails, mouths open and tongues out - they just look happy to see people.  While they might put paws up onto shins looking for more attention, they're not jumpy or nippy.  They don't bark or lunge.   Luca was never that doggy - he was not happy around people.  :_(   On a lighter note, we did get a dog-sitting job helping with one of the Shih Tzus - his owners will be taking vacation next month and need someone to take care of him while they're gone.  YAY!!   

We have some other friends who have Wheaten Terrier puppies.  My daughter and I are helping them to socialize them and they've told us they'd like us to take one of them (when s/he's old enough); however, I'm just not sure.    I really just love the Shih Tzu - the size, the personality, the adorably funny little face...   I think I'm just going to hold out for another Tzu baby.    I don't think I'm ready for another doggy just yet - and especially not just a random puppy just to say we have a dog in the house.   *sigh*

[Crinkly 15,586]

Of course... you could always have a wheaten terrier AND a shih tzu.

Just a suggestion.

Glad you are feeling better.  You definitely made the right decision.

[PipsMom 34,988]

I'm glad you wrote a update...your family and Luca are often in my thoughts but I wouldn't pry. So glad your getting experience with Shih Tzu's through baby sitting though...they are the lovingest breed ❤️ and the children can see not all of them are snappy.

Edited October 22, 2015 by PipsMom

[Infamousmare 491]

Of course... you could always have a wheaten terrier AND a shih tzu.

Just a suggestion.

Glad you are feeling better.  You definitely made the right decision.

HAHAHAHAHA!   I literally laughed out loud when I read your bit about having 2 dogs.   Wheatens are neat dogs - our friends have them and they are lovable and energetic...but they are a LOT of work.  They stay in the puppy stage for quite awhile!   Kind of like having a non-shedding Labrador Retriever.