Autumn 19 Posted November 9, 2015 Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 Greetings everyone! We just brought Herman home 4 weeks ago and he is wonderful. He is sweet and well mannered. He eats well, sleeps all night and plays well with our frenchies. His date of birth is July 13th, which makes him approximately 4 months old. Of course we are having potty training issues.... I have been a veterinary technician for 9 years, so I am not bringing this topic to you without some serious experience with puppies in general. Herman pees ALL THE TIME. He does pee outside, but within 20 minutes of going outdoors, he will pee on the floor - right in front of us. When we see him doing this, we say NO! loudly and immediately pick him up and take him outside to finish his potty, which he does and then we come back inside. He is not interested in treats at all, so we use praise as our positive reinforcement. We have tried about everything for a treat - food just doesn't excite him. In the house, he is ALWAYS IN EYESIGHT. The other dogs never potty in the house and are left out to roam while we are not home; Herman is crated. He will occasionally pee in the crate - so far I cannot determine a pattern to it. He does not drink excessively, or have a way to access water without our knowledge. I have taken him to work with me - clean bill of health. Urinalysis is clear, blood work is great. I have not done further diagnostic work at this time. I attempted bell training, but we have two cats. Herman could have cared less about the bell...the cats loved it! I am not interested in pee pads - I understand that they work for some homes, but it isn't an option in ours. I know that he is still quite young, but he holds it all night (10pm til 5:30am) and never wakes up to go out - he sleeps with us, so no risk of potty without our knowledge. Any tips? I understand we have a few months to go before I can expect that he is fully potty trained, but we aren't even making progress at this point! We have 2 frenchies and as a breed are notoriously difficult to potty train and both were fully crate/potty trained by six months - however they are both quite food motivated and treats worked well for them. We don't have any carpet and I have pulled up all rugs, so when he pees on the floor, he is going on hardwood or tile. He does not go back to the same spot to pee - it is like he just randomly suddenly squats and pees! Autumn 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Marlene 14,113 Posted November 9, 2015 Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 It does sound like he has the ability to hold it as he does so through the night. I'm assuming he sleeps in a crate but in your room? he holds it all night (10pm til 5:30am) and never wakes up to go out - he sleeps with us, so no risk of potty without our knowledge. Have you tried tethering him to yourself when you're home? It's a pain but by dedicating a week-end to immediately noticing he has to go and being able to immediately take him out.....maybe you would get more of a feel for his signs. LOL - I can understand your frustration at not being treat motivated - I've never had a dog that wasn't. Food! Food! Glorious food! My dogs will act like a fool for a chip of a tortilla . My favorite, which I've given to others to use is chicken hearts. I lightly boil them and then slice into dime size slices. That being said though.....he is still very young. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Crinkly 15,586 Posted November 9, 2015 Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 Hi Is it possible that something is confusing him? Shih Tzu are notoriously 'stubborn' but my experience of both of mine is that they are totally devoted to being happy, and seeing me happy makes them happy. The reptation for being stubborn seems like a misunderstanding. We found that any use of 'No' would send poor wee Cato into a kind of shut down funk. He would sit still, stare, and act as if he didn't care, but really, he was very stressed. So in the end we have done EVERYTHING with positive reinforcement. I have one noise that I make that means 'stop what you are doing, but you are not in any trouble'. That is as close to the negative that we get. With Tara, who is a bouncier and more resiliant character, we found that any negative vibes around the pottying would make her do it when we weren't looking. so we had to make it a positive game, so that she was pleased to show us how clever she was... They are both astonishingly obliging once they understand exactly what you want, and that it is in their best interests. I guess, what I am really saying is that if you treat him as if he is like other dogs, you may run into trouble, cos shih tzus are very, very different... Hope that helps. 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ParadiseTzu 11,275 Posted November 9, 2015 Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 Autumn - if you look thru this Training section, you will find posts on the very same issue that I had with Willie Boy. He is now almost 10 months old and is doing very well with his potty training, I, too, have never pee pad trained, just outside. He learned so quickly to pee or poopie every time I took him out from the time I brought him home at 8 weeks old. But, like Herman, would not hold the pee any longer than about 20 minutes. With poop while I'm sure he didnt hold it, I took him out so often I caught it outside. He does hold urine in his crate. So now being almost 10 months, he does much better. I still dont consider him house trained but he does hold it better With rarely an accident. So time may help Herman, too. I also have hardwood and tile floors. I have always used Nature's Miracle to wipe the urine spots with so as not to leave the smell for them to use as an excuse. Best of luck, it is frustrating! 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pawz4me 6,802 Posted November 9, 2015 Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 Welcome to the forum! How old is Herman? It may be that every 20 minutes is about all he can hold it while he's awake. Even when potty training larger breed puppies I've always aimed for getting them outside every 30 minutes or so during the day while they were awake. A lot of advice you hear and read says take them out every hour or two, but in my experience that's not nearly frequent enough for most puppies. When we got Yogi I had no intention of using pee pads. I quickly changed my mind on that when I encountered the exact same problem you're having. I can tell you that the pads worked wonderfully, and within a few days he was using them reliably. Within a couple of months it would have been quite easy to transition him to going outside only, which was my original intention. But I changed my mind on that because I find the pee pads to be wonderfully convenient for our situation. I post this just to let you know that using pee pads now wouldn't mean you'd need to use them forever. I'd rethink telling him NO! loudly. What you very well might do is inadvertently teach him to sneak away out of your sight to do his business. We humans tend to believe that dogs understand that "No" means don't do what you're doing, but he very well may interpret it to mean don't pee or poop around a human. And that can create all sorts of complications. There's also the risk of a loud NO! triggering submissive peeing. I would react as calmly and unemotionally as possible when he has an accident. Think of it as showing him what you want him to do rather than (loudly) correcting what you don't want him to do. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Missysmom 24,975 Posted November 9, 2015 Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 Pawz response reminded me, while I haven't had the same problem I do have areas I don't want Missy to go. We have a screened porch and while it is outside and wood I don't like her peeing on it and have pee pads and a grass box there for her. When she 'misses' them and goes on the deck I calmly explain to her how mommy now has to clean this up and while she isn't in trouble she needs to go on the box or pad next time. I know a lot of people don't like to have them around when you clean up their messes but I think it's good for her to see. And yes she does feel bad when she's gone in the wrong place, she'll come up and kiss me after I explain it to her. They Really do just want to please you. Of course my hubby thinks I'm insane to be 'explaining and reasoning' with her! 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PipsMom 34,988 Posted November 9, 2015 Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 Vicki. If I had that conversation with my two they both just go into the What Cha On About Mama look. Fortunately both of mine use pads 100% of the time....except for about 2 months out the year they can go out in the yard when it's not muddy and do their business if they choose.....I don't mind pads one bit....it works in my situation. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sophie's Haven 17,464 Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 I would be lost without pads........it is 50/50 here since I can not time 7 Tzu's at the same time. Vicki you are not the only one that has conversations regarding the rules of the house when it comes to using the pads. My guys sit and listen but for what it is worth they are just like children .......in one ear and out the other. I do it so often that I hear the hubby doing it now too. 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tilly Glen 50 Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 We have had Tilly for just over a week now. She is 9 weeks old now and we cage her at night. She is really good at night and was born and spent her first weeks with her siblings in a cage run. They had puppy pads at one end of the run which all the pups used. We started with about a dozen pads in the sitting room. She used them. Now we are down to two. She has a very cute personality and loves attention,lots of it. Lol. She's not as good at the pooping. She does it beside the pads . We point out to her that the pad is the place to aim for,reasonably. She looks at us with those black eyes then jumps into the air like a spring lamb and yaps as if to say, what?,what's the problem? That just creases us up. We will get there though. She is our first dog and we adore her. What a journey we are going to have. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Missysmom 24,975 Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 What a cutie Tilly is!! Love it about the pads! Missy is the same I get the look 'but mom pee pads are for Pee!' we finally got her a grass box to put Beside the pee pads and we're all happy now! Pee on the pad, poo on the box! 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Crinkly 15,586 Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 If i was as gorgeous as her, i would poop where i liked, too. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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