Grrr on Potty Training

[Kecats 0]

Okay everyone, I am at my wits end here with the Potty Training. I thought I had it down, not that she didn't have an accident here and there she did. BUT, she knows she is supposed to go outside, and EVERY time we take her out she goes. One or both, depending on the time of the day.

Then she comes in and goes on our carpets too. BOTH. The pee is more of a nuissance for me because it's left yellow stains everywhere!

Ive started feeding her on a schedule, so I can better control the situation.

I am at my wits end, and starting to freak out a little bit. I am such a neat freak, dogs and cats dont bother me, neither do accidents because I know with one, you have another. But it's like she does it on purpose. She'll turn and look at you like "See, here I am doing this".

It's not like we're not taking her outside enough, She gets plenty of outdoor time. I'd say we let her out every 30-60 minutes throughout the day, unless we're not watching or not home, she is in her crate. She won't mess in her crate at all.

DH told me to start researching and do it now.

So, Ive got to get this under control. Any tips? The way our house is set up, really there is no feasible why to baby gate a certain area, it's one huge open area. Even the kitchen. Plus if we dont have carpet, we have hardwood floor, and as horrible as it sounds we prefer carpet mess, over hardwood, because of how picky hardwood is.

Is it normal to just keep your puppy locked up in a crate all day, except to take her outside, hold her, play time and then back in the crate?? Seems mean to me, but she has walked all over her priviledges.

Thanks!

[kcsheperd 13]

How old is she again?

[tzukeeper 12]

In your post you say that you "let" her out every 30 - 60 minutes. I would suggest taking her out on a leash to the same area every time and praising her when she goes. She needs you to show her exactly where she is supposed to go potty every time. Eventually she will make the connection and you will be able to just let her out. I don't have carpet in my home, I have all wood and tile and have raised 7 puppies. My hardwood has been through the test of a bunch of slow to get it puppies....it survived and looks great. I could not have done it with carpet. I will say though that my dogs were just not fully reliable until about the age of 1 year. I agree that it is mean to keep one in a crate all the time. Have you considered an exercise pen instead? It would provide her more room during this potty training time as well as confine her to a smaller area. I have 8 ex-pens and they are the best things I have ever bought. I use them all the time in one way or the other. I hope things improve....I know how frustrating potty training can be.

[Stacey 7]

I would suggest crate her ALL the time for several days (2 - 3 tops), the only time to come out is to eat, potty and for a short play session.....

I taught Lea this way.... It may seem cruel but with in a few days.... she learn really really quick peeing on carpet dont work lol

Edited April 5, 2009 by Stacey

[Kecats 0]

Hi,

Holly is 4 months old. So yes, I realize accidents do happen, that really isn't the issue. An accident is fine, but I think she is doing it on purpose. Because everytime she goes outside, she goes. IF she is not in her crate, she is let out (or taken out) every 30-60 minutes. Sometimes I take her on a leash, sometimes I just go out with her without a leash. (Do you think that is too inconsistent?)

When I potty trained Cooper, he refused to go on a leash, just wouldnt do it, so I had to train him to be trusted without a leash. So, Ive tried both approaches with Holly, she'll go on her, or off her leash, and even without her leash, they dogs tend to go in 1 area outside, about a 10x10 area, they always run to and go in.

The fact that she uses the potty each and everytime I let her out, the fact that she uses the same "area" everytime, and the fact she won't "mess" in her crate all lead me to believe that she is pretty certain she knows what to do.

They also know how to alert me to go outside, well Cooper does for sure, and Holly has picked up on that somewhat herself, though I don't count on this with her, yet.

Here is an example of what we'll go through, this is just an example, a true life one.

We'll come inside, we'll be sitting there watching TV or Play with her, or Any number of things, she'll come in and play around and then just walks off from what she's doing, and goes and pee's or poops in front of us. And there have been times she goes and hides and does it too. Like she'll go upstairs or in another room.

I try to be faithful in watching her everytime she has free roam, but sometimes I need to go do something (switch loads of laundry, go the bathroom, etc) and I dont want to put her away for these instances, and that quick, she'll go to the bathroom on the floor.

I do NOTHING when I dont catch her, if I catch her, I pick her up and run her outside and when she finishes, I praise and give a treat on the spot. If it is just an everyday turn out, I will admit, I dont give her treats, but I do praise, I praise both my dogs when they go outside. Edit to Add: When I read this part of my seek for help, it raised a red flag, meaning if I read this from someone else, I would say to myself "Maybe the dog knows if she goes inside and happens to get caught, they'll take me outside and give me a treat". Do you think that is possible?

I hope I am not coming across like a know it all, I am the first to admit I am not, I definitely need assistance with this, but I'm usually not a dumbie on training dogs, IVe had dogs my entire life, but NEVER a small breed. Maybe this is what I need to keep in mind?

Edited April 6, 2009 by Kecats

[tzukeeper 12]

I've always heard that small dogs including the Shih Tzu can be stubborn when it comes to potty training. I think it's true to a certain extent. However I don't think your baby is doing it on purpose to aggitate you. I just don't think dogs have the ability to think that way. If anything it is completely the opposite with dogs. They are eager to please their humans. Their is nothing they love more than to see their human happy with them. But if you have had dogs all your life you already know that. Your pup is very young and in my opinion too young to expect much more than following you out to the yard on a leash. The fact that she goes out of sight to do her business tells me she knows it is wrong but really does not know what to do. She may be a bit confused. Consistancy is so important with these little ones. You got to have a plan and you have to stick to the plan each and every time. I guess what I am trying to say is that she is too young to accept responsibilty for her potty habits yet. That is going to fall on your shoulders for the next few months. Here is a post I made in another members thread about their potty issues with their boy pup.

1. Put your dog on 2 scheduled feedings a day. This will help you know when he will need to go poo. Also use a good quality food...they poo less on these foods.

2. Always take him to potty using a leash and always take him to the same area. Sounds like Alexander is just not sure where he is supposed to go potty. Show him an area that is used only for going potty. No playing while your at the potty place....business only.

3. Use a command to tell him what it is you want him to do. I use "go potty". All of mine know what this means and what I want them to do when I say it.

4. Praise praise praise! Tell him "good boy' for a job well done. Some people even give small treats as a reward.

5. If he does not potty when you take him out then he goes back in the kennel when you go inside. Wait about 20 - 30 minutes and take him out again. Repeat this until he has success. After he goes potty he has earned a bit of time out of the crate....maybe an hour or two until the next potty trip. Your potty trips will be many and be very close together.

All of this will require lots of dedication on your part for a couple of weeks. Sort of a potty training boot camp for you both. Dogs thrive on routine and are so eager to please their humans. Take advantage of those things. Get a potty routine going and always let him know you are pleased with his accomplishments.

Let me also address the times that he goes potty in the house. Because he will have accidents while your training is going on. He will probably have an occasional accident for as long as you own him . That is part of owning a dog. Your actions and treatment of him when those accidents occur can have great bearing on how confident he is at his potty behaviors. Never punish him for accidents....no hitting or rubbing faces in poo. No timeouts in the crate...dogs don't have the capacity to understand that sort of thing. A simple change in your voice tone with a stern "NO NO" will be all that is necessary to communicate to him that he has done wrong and you are not happy. All accidents should be followed up with a trip to the proper potty area to show him where he should have gone.

I hope I've helped some. Potty training is really very simple with consistancy being the key to success. As the training progresses you will see the light bulb going off in Alexanders little brain....he'll get it. Have patience! He just needs you to show him and tell him where he should be going potty. Good luck!

[kcsheperd 13]

Payslee started to put it together around the 4 month period. Sawyer still doesn't have it. I tried praise with her, but she is treat driven..so I had to go to treats. I don't do treats EVERYTIME, but I do it quite a bit. Its her motivation. She now goes and stands by the door when she needs to go, and hasn't had an accident in the house in a long time. Does she pee 431 times a day because of this? lol..Yeah probably, but I would rather let her out and her 'pretend' pee, than peeing in the house!

Now Sawyer on the other hand, I'm still trying to figure it out with him..He had never been outside from birth to 16 weeks, so we had to start from scratch at 16 weeks..He has his good days and bad days. I honestly think some of them just get it way before others. Rally is 10 and he was potty-trained like 2 weeks after I got him. AMAZING..but unrealistic! lol..So if I see Sawyer starting to slink off somewhere I'll say "Sawyer..come back in here" and never let him out of my sight..So if she starts to walk off or something, call her back to you..Then if I notice he kinda starts to get a little antzy I'll take him right out..If I catch him in the act I'll say "NO" "Outside" and take him out immediately..Today was the first time he actually went to the door, so maybe he's getting it now..Rally & Pays have been good about 'telling' him what to do when he's out there..but I do think sometimes it just takes a little longer to 'click' with some..She'll get it!! Hang in there!

[tzuhouse 4]

It is so hard to try to figure them out at this age. I really think however that having free reign of the house, i.e. upstairs is way too much room for a 4 month old. I think they need much closer supervision, even if you go to change the laundry, you could either crate or tether, that being put a leash on and hook around your waist and they have to follow you around...then you can react when they make a mistake....If that happens, I would also give a very stern NO and then wisk off to outside potty spot and then praise for a good job. Not sure if you have tried this, but just another suggestion. Good luck, it can make you so

[Stacey 7]

how much does she weigh????

Lea had this problem too because she was tiny tiny... she would go 3 times while outside but come back in and 30 mins later need to go again and if I didnt take her she would just pee anywhere....

thats when I crated her for 3 days and she learned very quick to just stop going into the house.... she will now hold it until I take her out.

If she goes out and uses potty and comes back in and less than an hour she rings the bells to potty again I just ignore her or put her in the crate.

[Kecats 0]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for listening to me vent, I had a bad day yesterday, I shouldve waited a day or so to make the post. I know better than to think she would do it out of spite or just to be mean. She is a sweetheart of a dog, and I do know what you mean, Dogs do anything to make you happy, which is why they are a must in my life

Tzu, Thank you for that list you posted here, that is helpful. I am going to start back with square 1 with her, act like I am just now bringing her into my home again. I think I got too lenient, because she was doing so good. We regressed obviously, so back to Step 1. Thank you for your time in answering and helping me.

KC, Thank you for sharing your tips, Holly doesn't listen to me either, that is another problem. I don't know if maybe she needs some obedience training or what, but if you call her, she only comes when she wants. She comes at times, but if there is something else on her mind, she won't come. Is that normal puppy behavior? I'm sorry, but you have to remember, how long it's been since Ive owned a puppy, all my dogs (except Holly) come from Animal Shelters, at a year or older. Holly is different, she was a rescue in a way, but very young. I had to laugh when you said all 431 times a day, she would fake it to get a treat, I think Holly does this also.

Catnjr I think the idea you brought up, of tethering her to me, is what might work the best for me. I am one of these who is constantly doing something in the house, I get jittery if I sit too long somewhere. I know, I need to learn the word Relax, my DH tells me this all the time. LOL. So, due to this OCD part of me, it would be best to do something like what you mentioned. Thank you - I wouldnt of thought of that.

Stacey, she probably weighs about 5-7 pounds maybe? Last time I had her at the vet, 3 weeks ago, she weighed 3.5 pounds. The digital scale I have at home (for humans) won't recognize her weight, so I cant be for sure. I am going to be more strict this is for sure, I think I gave her too much leeway (spelling?), that is for sure.

Well, Thank you all very much for taking the time to respond to me. I appreciate that help. I believe I got some very good advice, and I am going to put it into action right away. I think I just started to give her too much freedom, too soon. I thought I got lucky, and had one who was easy. We went a longgg stretch with no using the potty in the house, other than if I went outside to get something and didnt take her with me, she would run in and pee or poo on my floor. I think she thought she forgot me, so I guess I'll do it here.

But, Thank you again. I will use the advice and encouragement.

[Mommie to Lila 0]

Hello. I thought I would chime in here as I am having problems with Lila also. She is 7 months old, weighs about 3.5 lbs and is NOT potty trained. She is very tiny and I don't know if it has anything to do with the potty training or not but to be fair she is my first dog since childhood as I having been raising Himilayan cats for years. I have her on a schedule, she eats around the same time every day and I take her to go potty around every hour. She also has her walks. She goes to bed between 8:00 and 9:00 and I will get up with her at 3:30 to take her out (she will go all over everything if I do not do this!!). She does pretty well with this schedule and does have an occasional accident but over all I am happy with it, although I am very much looking forward to the day when she will let me know and I don't have to do the every hour thing.......IF that day will come.

The problem is when I take her out of this scenario. Right now she only has access to the mudroom (at night or if we are away) and the kitchen. She usually doesn't leave the kitchen but there are times I will let her in the living rom on the couches with us. She has had numerous accidents on the couch, even if she has just gone out! She has also peed on me while holding her when I visited a friend's house!! I am almost convinced that she just "forgets" because she is out of her normal surroundings and maybe even gets a little over exited. I can not trust her outside of the kitchen and probably won't be able to for some time.

I don't have any advise, I wish I did. Just know that you aren't alone.....it's funny how just knowing that makes you feel better! I really hate to hear "that dog should be trained by now" or "my dog was trained in 2 weeks"!! There is nothing worse than hearing that from people when you are already overly frustrated! All I can tell you to do is keep at it, day in and day out and have the patience of a saint!! Just know that there are others out here who can greatly sympathize with you and share your pain.

Edited April 6, 2009 by Mommie to Lila

[tzuhouse 4]

Hello. I thought I would chime in here as I am having problems with Lila also. She is 7 months old, weighs about 3.5 lbs and is NOT potty trained. She is very tiny and I don't know if it has anything to do with the potty training or not but to be fair she is my first dog since childhood as I having been raising Himilayan cats for years. I have her on a schedule, she eats around the same time every day and I take her to go potty around every hour. She also has her walks. She goes to bed between 8:00 and 9:00 and I will get up with her at 3:30 to take her out (she will go all over everything if I do not do this!!). She does pretty well with this schedule and does have an occasional accident but over all I am happy with it, although I am very much looking forward to the day when she will let me know and I don't have to do the every hour thing.......IF that day will come.

The problem is when I take her out of this scenario. Right now she only has access to the mudroom (at night or if we are away) and the kitchen. She usually doesn't leave the kitchen but there are times I will let her in the living rom on the couches with us. She has had numerous accidents on the couch, even if she has just gone out! She has also peed on me while holding her when I visited a friend's house!! I am almost convinced that she just "forgets" because she is out of her normal surroundings and maybe even gets a little over exited. I can not trust her outside of the kitchen and probably won't be able to for some time.

I don't have any advise, I wish I did. Just know that you aren't alone.....it's funny how just knowing that makes you feel better! I really hate to hear "that dog should be trained by now" or "my dog was trained in 2 weeks"!! There is nothing worse than hearing that from people when you are already overly frustrated! All I can tell you to do is keep at it, day in and day out and have the patience of a saint!! Just know that there are others out here who can greatly sympathize with you and share your pain.

MOST, not all, but a lot of people who say their pup was trained in two weeks is either an exagerater OR they have a big dog. Large dogs are a lot easier to train, they have much larger bladders. Both of you go easy on yourselves, it just takes time. The other thing that might need to be mentioned is getting really excited to go outside. Both of mine, I would say...wanna go outside?...VERY excited and silly and then they would show excitement also, we go out, they do their business and we do the happy dance. I treated Josie but not Maddy and yet Maddy trained the easiest. I think because I was more disciplined with the crate or tethering. Josie I think I gave too much freedom.

Don't worry about venting, that is what this board is all about....supporting each other. We all have those days....this is off topic, but for instance....I came home the other day only to find Maddy had "eatend" the trim on my wood shutters in the hearth room....I SOOOOO thought he was over that. So, now, he is back in the crate every time I leave the house. He still can't be trusted to not chew. He has ALL the millions of chew bones and toys and he still did it. Oh, I was soooo I wnated to scream....I took ten deep breaths and about passed out from hyperventilating and then went and had some coffee and calmed down. I figure if I have them, I gotta accept what they do and just figure out what triggers problems and train, train, train....so, hang in there gals, it WILL get better, but there will also be some back sliding...JUST ASK ANY OF US!!!!

[Stacey 7]

Stacey, she probably weighs about 5-7 pounds maybe? Last time I had her at the vet, 3 weeks ago, she weighed 3.5 pounds. The digital scale I have at home (for humans) won't recognize her weight, so I cant be for sure.

Weigh yourself first... get your weight.... then hold her and weigh yourself again.... the minus the difference lol

Chances are she is still tooo tiny yet to hold it for very long.... she has a weeee weee little bladder.... I had this problem with Lea until she reached about 5 to 6 lbs... She would constantly think she needed to go ever 30 mins to an hour.... this is where crate training some during the day will help "stretch" her bladder.

I conditioned lea's bladder by taking her to potty, she would come back in and play, eat etc.... after I felt she had enough time out, id crate her knowing she had to pee. And kept her crated for about 2 hours. And then eventually made it up to 3.... and now 4...

I know she can hold it at night for about 9 hours max.... so I know she can do it.

[kcsheperd 13]

If you can get her to listen to you that will be big. I taught Sawyer & Payslee "Come" by rewarding them if they came over to me, or if they were outside and came when I called them. "Come" is so important because it can stop them from going places they shouldn't go, and stop them from running away from you..Try working with "Come" and give her a little treat each time she comes over to you. I think that will make a big difference. Also remember, YOU ARE THE PACK LEADER..and she needs to have respect for you as your owner. So listening to you should be a priority for her.. Good luck!