Forgot what a good night sleep means anymore!?!

[Pinkshopper 0]

So, this is my 1st post and this forum has given me some hope in my loooong tired day..So, Gizmo has been with us for 1 1/2 months now (Shih tzu x Bichon Frise) and he is just over 3 months old, he is so affectionate, cuddly and I love him to bits but toilet training him is nearly costing my sanity and my marriage!!

So, we also have Hanzo (a Japanese Akita Inu, large breed) who is 10 months old now, toilet training him was so easy, probably took us 2 days and no accident since, so with little experience of toy dogs and little research, I was charmed by the shih tzu straight away.

Me and my husband both work but he only work around the corner and pops in every few hours to let them out in the garden, problem is probably starting from day one when Gizmo arrives as we didn't expect training him was that difficult, so we gave him the freedom of running around the house, we did put a training pad in the kitchen and the training aid sprayed on but he never use it (whereas Hanzo was drawn to it right away and continue using it when he is locked in the house) So, Gizmo just seems to go anywhere he fancies, rugs, carpets etc and tend to do it when we're not looking or sneak to another room and does it quickly. He shows no sign (verbally) that he needs to go and as he is now a little bigger, it is easier for me to see the signs but still it is often too late or out of my sight.

I do tend to stick to a stricter schedule now though and seems to be working okay, also restrict free access to water and food and I bring him out to garden almost once an hour when I'm home. Problem is that we really need to see him does it before letting him back becos many times even though he been left in the garden for hours, once we let him inside he'll go in the house. As if he has been holding on it while he is outside and wait to do it inside?!

When he does it outside both pee and poo, I give him lots of praise and treats as well. I see the slight obstacle of him not being more discipline is that my husband really lacks patience with him, he already said we have to give him up if he still not train up after sometime which I'm of course against and caused lots of arguments. So, when he is home to let him out he just open the door and won't see him do his business, so of course he run back and did it in the house and he then blame Gizmo for it which is wrong..

Another problem probably being me not sticking to his sleeping arrangment as I tried to use the crate, he don't like it and will also pee and poo inside (rarely but he does!), he will cry a little but will stop and sleep for a few hours, I put the crate next to my bed and I have to wake up around 2 or 3am every morning to bring him out for a wee and again when I get up at 6am. It has worked so far but I've let him sleep on our bed a few times and he loved it but did pee on it once, so maybe it is something I shouldn't do so soon?! Last night, I put him back in the crate at 10pm, he woke up crying at 2am, I brought him out, he pee but didn't poo. Then I put him back in the crate, cried again but slept..woke up at 3:30am!!! Then I've to bring him out again, again only pee and when I tried to lock him in the crate, he cried and cried and woken hubby up and I can't get any sleep, so I shut in downstairs in the kitchen till 6am when we all wake up, he peed on the kitchen floor once and pee and poo in the garden when I let him out first thing at 6am.

So, I'm so lack of sleep..has been since he arrive 1 and half ago and still can't see which way or what to stick to, to make it work?! I've read all the posts here about toilet training and still hope for some sound advice or a plan for me to try and stick to?

Apologise for such a long post, but I just want to make my position as clear as possible?!

Thanks everyone!

[MisterMom 11]

My new one is 5 months old now and only within the last weeks got the idea NOT to pee in the house. I take her out every 3 or 4 hours now. She sleeps in bed with me and has no accidents. I take her out at 10:30 at night and she will usually sleep until 7:30 in the morning. IF I feel her wandering around the bed at 3 or 5 or 6, I take her out. She will normally pee & poo and go back to sleep.

At 3 months she was peeining in the house, even if I just went out. She slept in a crate on my bed and at first wanted up and out at 5 or 5:30, and usually at 2 or 3 am. I keep all of them confined with baby gates in the den / kitchen area with me during the day. IF I am paying attention, I can tell by the way they start trotting, sniffing, looking for a place that it is time to go out. Only my 8 year old will actually go to the back door and bark to go out.

The puppy gets put in an exercise pen in the house whenever I leave. I don't let her run free unless I am here. It can take up to a year to get where you can fully trust one not to go in the house, or eat the furniture or woodwork.

Good luck, and I think you should be able to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

[Seastar 44]

Many of these dogs take a full year to be reliable. Till then, they need to be confined between trips outside, where you instantly reward with a very delectable treat when they eliminate. Don't let them out just to play on their own; they get bored, or get into trouble, or just don't realize that you expect them to go potty.

[mr.coffee 364]

Sleep? Heh. More coffee....

First thing I would say is stick to your guns on the crate. Even though Harley sleeps with us, if I were to make him sleep in his crate he'd be fine with it, but only because we made it through the rough few nights of getting him used to the idea. Downstairs in the kitchen? Great. Put him in the crate downstairs in the kitchen. In the basement at the other end of the house if need be. Borrow a neighbors house if you can. Whatever. Leave him in the crate. Harley was quick to figure out a: They're not going to let me out. b: I don't like sleeping in pee or poop. c: I'd rather be in the crate in the room next to the bed than in the crate alone in the dark. Initially we would wake up in shifts to take him out during the night, usually once right before bed, twice during the night at first, then right away in the morning. Eventually it became one midnight trip, then none.

We never used pads, papers, litterboxes or the like. I just don't want him eliminating in the house. Period. He goes outside. Doesn't matter if it's 115 degrees and 98% humidity, or 50 degrees and raining cats and dogs. It doesn't snow here, but if it did, he'd potty outside in the snow. Unless, of course, he wants to learn how to use the toilet like the dog in Bruce Almighty.

Schedules are good. When we started with Harley, I would take him out as often as I needed to. If he doesn't go, come in and go again in 15 minutes. Yeah, it sucks at first. Eventually it'll be hours between trips. I think they say an hour for every month in age, but I'd suggest since he's not trained start shorter, maybe every hour.

Even now that he's got the concept down, 99% of potty breaks are on leash even in our fenced yard - off leash is playtime, potty time is not for play. If he wants to play when he's done, I'll run with him or let him off leash. At potty breaks, ~you have to be watching~ or you will not know what he's done!

When you go out with him, communicate with him. Tell him, "Let's go potty!" Tell him more..."Let's go potty!" When he potties outside, praise, reward, treat, click, use his name, make a BIG DEAL! This is good, good, good! "Good boy, Gizmo! Yes, Gizmo's such a good, good boy, yes he is, he pottied outside like a good boy! Yay!" Yeah, your neighbors will peek over the fence at you like you're some sort of lunatic. So what. They're the ones whose dogs pee on the rug. I've actually separated potty and poop, "Let's go potty!" and "Find a good spot to poop!" are two different tasks. When he potties inside, remove the dog while it is cleaned, no big deal. I keep a big bottle of Nature's Miracle stain & odor remover with a spray head, after cleaning up I will spray the area liberally, no matter where it is.

He may not poo every time he goes out. Harley poos two or three times a day at this point, although that will vary from dog to dog and different foods affect that as well. He pees just about any time I take him out. He's getting better and better, I'm not sure anymore when the last time was he pooped in the house, and pee accidents are increasingly rare. He's even gotten to where he'll go sit by the back door and look up at his leash hanging on the wall, or get excited when asked if he needs to go for a walk.

Good luck!

-m

Edited September 14, 2009 by mr.coffee

[ShihtzuBeauty 47]

Some good advice I just wanted to say Hi and Welcome to the family! Can't wait for pics!

[Kae+Gizzy 5]

Hello and welcome to both You and Gizmo.

I understand totally what you are going through although we have never really had issues with using pee pads. Our Gizmo sems to prefer them to going outside to potty

I knew we would have potty issues with him as I read so many times before we brought him home that they are difficult to housetrain. That being said I never thought it would take so long, he will be 2 in Feb! He was paper trained when we first brought him home from his breeder but he adapted very quickly to pee pads as I have never used paper.

I think we added to his potty issues by free feeding.

When he has Kibble he is free fed and his eating habits are abit bizarre... so were his potty issues. So free feeding really didn't help.

I think alot of the problem is finding a solid routine and sticking to it, but we are still not there ourselves. Sometimes on long walks he will not potty at all and as soon as we arrive home he will run to his pee pad and do his business, and look at us as if to say "What are you playing at, I have held this in for hours!!"

We also get the strangest looks from people when he does potty outside and we lavish him with praise..people think we are insane lol

I'm sure you will get lots of advice during the coming days as many of us here have had the same issues with our pups. Stick at it, I'm sure he will get better as he grows :P

[borzoimom 24]

Good advice and Welcome as well!

[kayknox 0]

You already know the main problem: human inconsistency & lack of a clear schedule. That's a great start!

You & your husband need to just talk & decide what will work for BOTH of you and the dog. Your dog will adapt to outside-only potty, papertraining, doggy litterbox, whatever you guys decide, but the point is that you guys need to decide!!

Same goes for kenneling. For safety reasons, I strongly prefer for Lullaby to be crated at night, where I know she isn't getting into trouble. She's still a puppy after all! It took her a few nights to get used to it, but now she's sleeping quietly through the night. (We also transitioned from a 3AM potty break to gradually not needing it. She'll wake us up if she really needs to go!) Lullaby is still just 16 weeks, and she's doing fine with housetraining (outside only) as well as crating at night (and as needed during the day).

I won't deny it, it was hard at first!!! I felt guilty at times leaving her crying in her crate. But it was worth it! Just stick to your guns!

Clicker training worked wonders for housetraining, in our opinion.

Hope this helps!

Kay

[tzuhouse 4]

I can't top any of the great advice you have been given, but I wanted to say hello and welcome to chatter. Hope you will share pics soon, we love pics of all kinds. Good luck, it takes patience for sure.

[Pinkshopper 0]

Thanks everyone for your replies and advice! I truly enjoy this site sooo much and please to be learning from u all! So, a little update, I tried to stick to the schedule last night as soon as I return home from work, walk him, feed him earlier than usual so he might have a chance to poo before bedtime, brought him out for wee wee twice before bedtime at 10pm, since he wee right before bedtime, I allowed him to sleep on our bed. He did very well and slept till 2:30am, brought him out to garden and he wee and poo as well! Then back to bed and slept till I actually gets up at 6am. So, it's an improvement compare to waking up several times over night.

I've also written the timings down as well, so even my hubby can tried and follow the timings especially he is the one feeding him lunch and seeing him more during the day than me.

I've heard about clicker training, and that it is good..can anyone have books/ sites that can recommend me to learn to use it? I think I did have one lying around the house but never get to learn how to use it.

Once again, thanks you all! I'll stick to it and let's hope he'll get it soon enough!!

Oh, and if I've done it correctly..my avatar pic is one of Gizmo!! That is before he get his fur trimmed though, he is now skinner with a neat fur but I do actually prefer him with a longer coat, so will leave it for longer before his next pampering session. It's getting a bit cooler in the UK now, so put a tartan coat on him today..looks sooo cute, will post a pic tonight for you all! ^_^

[kcsheperd 13]

Great Advice, and glad its going better! Welcome!

[CrazyTzuLady 16]

Sounds like great advice! I just wanted to welcome you to Chatter. Gizmo is a cutey! I look forward to hearing more about him.

[Pinkshopper 0]

So just a little update here on Gizmo's progress regarding toilet training. As soon as me and my husband thought he kind of master the art (as he hasn't done it in house for almost a week!) I found 2 lots of wee on the carpet last night!! The annoying thing is that I've taken him out to the garden just 10-15 mins before I discovered the wee, as I'm still sticking to the schedule of bringing him out every hour or so and after he has eaten etc..

Though, I understand accident will happen and he is still only 4 months old but I'm just got a feeling that he didn't know that doing it in the house is a bad thing as I seldom catch him doing it, in the times I do catch him, I stopped him mid way and bring him out in the garden or say a firm 'NO NO' right after he does it.

I'm using a clicker as well now and clicks when he does it outside together with a treat too. As for waking up at night time, I still do but only once at around 3am and then he normally waits till we get up around 6:30am now.

So, just a little update, again any tips will be much appreciated!

xx

[mr.coffee 364]

As good as Harley is, we still have the occasional accident. They are getting fewer and further between though, and I'm very confident and proud of him. He'll be 5 months tomorrow. It's fairly clear from his behavior that he doesn't want to pee inside, he wants to go outside.

Anyway, if you've made it a week with no accidents, that is good news! You're on the right track! Don't let an occasional accident slow you down. Just keep up what you've been doing, because it appears to be working!

-m

[Kae+Gizzy 5]

I'm sure over time he will get the idea, although its safe to say we all probably have accidents with our pups from time to time. They have a small bladder and pee often when they are little. Consistency is the key to success. It sounds like he is doing great to me :hysterical:

[Lexi's Mom 0]

Great advice!

One thing that helped us a lot was keeping her tethered to us. When we brought Lexi home, she was not allowed to run the house. If we were not playing with her, she was in her crate or I used her leash to attach her to me. This way I was always aware of her and what she was doing. If there was any indication that she needed to go out, out we went. This has worked very well. She's been completely reliable since she was about 9 months old.

Keep it up and be patient! You'll get there! :chickendance:

[Pinkshopper 0]

So, Gizmo seems to be going backwards all of a sudden!! I found him weeing and trying to Poo (I caught him just befor he begins! ) The worrying thing is 5 mins before he decided to wee in the living room, I did actually open the kitchen door and let him out to do it, he went out for 1 min and decided to come back..not sure if it is that he don't like the cold? But still, I get so upset, just as I thought he had master the idea of doing it outside, he revert back to the old ways..

Just wondering if there might be anything to do with him not being neutered yet? He is only 4 months old though, what age is good to have him neuter? I really that he is climbing on the cat whenever he got his hands to him and also marking the trees and everywhere when we're having walks. Does this behaviour related to him reverting back to his old habits?

[mr.coffee 364]

Since Harley's thick-headed and stubborn, I find I have to be too. When I take him out, I have to set aside how late it is and how tired I am, or how bright the sun is and I'd rather be back in my bed, or how wet and rainy and miserable and cold it is. Sometimes it's a real drag, and neither of us want to be out there in the yard. But we're out there to do one thing, and we don't go in until I get at least a token dribble. If you're doing the scheduling thing, stay out until he goes and he'll be less likely to have an accident.

-m

[cbeare 0]

Well you are not alone, My dog Zoe is now 14 month old. She was doing great all summer long, in retrospect I think that it was because we spend so much time outside. Now since it is November we have accidents of pee at least 2-3 times a week. We take her out every 2 hr, which is too much I would say since she can hold it all night and from 7 am to 3pm when we are at work. She is crated and has a doggy playpen.

When she pees it is always in the computer room. We got a new rug in the summer and we thought that we where done---oh no--here we go again.

I do not know what to do and it is very frustrating