Turf wars....

[mr.coffee 364]

Okay, maybe not so much ~war~ as such, but Harley is very protective of our den. Any time we have guests, he gets all aggro, it starts with the knock at the door which elicits much raucous barking. Once the guest gains entry, the barking continues with the addition of throaty growls. He's never done anything more than that, and he can meet friends or strangers away from home and be perfectly fine with them. (Well, except for the neighbor, he doesn't like her at all but she's one of those crazy cat people...)

Yesterday, we had someone here and he started up, and just wouldn't quit. I tried everything I know, from basically ignoring his fit and encouraging our guest to greet him calmly & casually, to telling him "No" in my firm, Daddy means business voice, to holding him and trying to calm him, to crating him, to isolating him altogether. He never stopped caterwauling, it just changed from "Hey, you don't belong here" to "why won't you let me out of here so I can defend you?" At one point I was afraid he'd damage our bedroom door.

We were trying to take care of some business and while our guest was fairly tolerant of it, it was distracting at best, and not all guests are so patient. Excuses will only go so far, and rather than make excuses I'd like to correct this behavior. I understand why he does it, I'm just not sure what to do about it. I'd love a Cesar Milan-esque quick fix, but I'm willing to work with him over time.

I also realize part of the problem is that we don't often have guests, and he's not used to the idea of people coming inside.

Any recommendations?

-m

[MisterMom 11]

Mine bark and raise hell as long as someone they don't recognize is outside the house. Once they enter, all they want is attention and petting. We don't have many visitors either. Coco is the only one that will sometimes back off and bark at someone, but she quits after a short time. ( That person is usually a cat person or non animal person, they can tell. )

Maybe he needs more socialization with other dogs, or get a friend or neighbor to come over and repeatedly come in /out and keep it up until he decides to quit.

Treats for good behavior help lots !! Good luck :D

[tzuhouse 4]

I'm sure no help...I am trying to break mine from jumping up on people and expecting all the attention...and the little guy is learning right along with the older ones, so I pick him up so he CAN'T jump up...while I work on this problem.

I did get some advice the other day and it has worked twice for me....don't know how it would work for your issue. I was told to get them on a leash as soon as the door bell rings....then when the guests enter, EVERYone ignores the dogs while I step on the leash about a foot from the collar. They CANNOT jump up, but more importantly with everyone ignoring them like they are not even in the room, they calm themselves in a short time. Mine did that twice just like I was told. So, you might try it...don't know since it is a different situation.

I am like you, we rarely have guests, so it does make training for the correct behavior difficult.

Good luck and will be interested to hear what others have to say.

[xr4man 7]

did you try turning your back on him? i mean really turning you back and making a show of it? when i do that to hunter he gets really upset. not barking upset, but really sad upset. i found it was really an effective way to let him know he did something bad.

[Claudiabehr 3]

Patricia McConnell would say, "Anticipate the behavior and have the yummiest treats ever ready for Harley..........bits of chicken preferably. Then have a friend come to the door and before they knock or come in, distract him with the chicken. Eventually, if you do it over and over, the association with people coming into the house will be that yummy things happen." Did you say you were looking to buy the Brooklyn Bridge?

[tzuhouse 4]

Yes, we also turn our backs, but because they are jumpers, one actually scratches the back of your legs...she doesn't care that you are front or back she just wants your FULL attention...however, AFTER they calmed themselves and then started to approach a bit too quick, I had my guest turn around and they just walked away...very cool. I have tried the treats, but this same one is NOT food motivated and I am in such HIGH hopes if I keep this up it will work. Like you said, they are not like that when not at home, thank goodness cause that would NEVER make good therapy dogs....LOL

[loewenthal.anna 4]

I would say that the issue here is more the "we don't often have guests" part of the scenario than any of the things you did to try to alleviate the situation once it was in progress, those were all good ideas!

It sounds to me like because not many people enter your house he's become possessive about "his" home. You're right to want to work on it since many dogs will continue to become more and more protective as they age, especially without correction. It might be worth it to enlist a few family members and friends to make quick stops by your house a few times a week. Dogs don't seem to care how long the guest is there, the issue is that they've entered so the people you corral to help could literally come in for two seconds say hello to you and Harley and then leave. Instead of trying to manage the behavior once the cycle has started (it's always more difficult to call a dog OFF something they're already worked up about than it is to teach them acceptance when they're calm) having frequent "guests" will help desensitize Harley to the whole ordeal.

If it's the door and knocking he flips about, you and your family could also start knocking before you enter. Imagine how silly Harley will feel when he gets all worked up "protecting" only to find that it's your wife coming through the door. It sounds a little sneaky but dogs are very specific in that way. If the ONLY time someone knocks the result is that a "stranger" is in the house then that will reaffirm to Harley that he "needs to protect" . . . BUT. . . if half the time someone knocks it ends up being you, or your wife and kids, he'll have to re-evaluate.

The mental processes that allow repetition to teach our dogs good traits are equally able to reinforce phobias. In this scenario the the knocking is the command ("call to action seems" like the more appropriate phrase) and seeing that it IS actually a stranger is the reward. He feels justified in his reaction because he's always been "right" that knocking = stranger danger. By knocking on the door yourself and being "let in" as often as possible you'll be teaching Harley that at the very least, he needs to wait and see who's there before he reacts.

Once you get him to a point where he's calm as someone knocks and is let in, you'll be in a much better position to start having guests-for-hire stop by and teach him that they are "good people" too.

As a variation of this (because Poe never barked at the door, she just stood RIGHT on the other side of it expecting to need to throw-down if it was an intruder) I had my guests and friends say "Hi, Poe!" as they knocked. I actually encouraged everyone to do it (my mailman was PHENOMENAL at this!), I put a sign on my front door that said:

"There is a large dog on the other side of this door, please say "Hello Poe!" and let her know you mean no harm. "

For her, hearing anyone outside call her name triggered for her that they were "good people" and she could calm down. The sign helped a lot because it mediated the need for me to yell through the door the directions I wanted guests to follow. People tend to follow written directions better anyway, I've found.

I hope that's helpful, let us know how Harley does!

[mr.coffee 364]

I would say that the issue here is more the "we don't often have guests" part of the scenario than any of the things you did to try to alleviate the situation once it was in progress, those were all good ideas!

Thanks! I thought I was doing the "right" things, I just knew it wasn't working as well as it does in other circumstances. I was fairly sure the rarity of guests was key, or at least partly so.

If it's the door and knocking he flips about, you and your family could also start knocking before you enter. Imagine how silly Harley will feel when he gets all worked up "protecting" only to find that it's your wife coming through the door. It sounds a little sneaky but dogs are very specific in that way. If the ONLY time someone knocks the result is that a "stranger" is in the house then that will reaffirm to Harley that he "needs to protect" . . . BUT. . . if half the time someone knocks it ends up being you, or your wife and kids, he'll have to re-evaluate.

That is awesome! I wish I'd seen this before I left this morning to make the rounds! The only down-side is he often watches through the windows, and knows we're home as soon as the car rolls into the driveway; we could counter some of that by closing the blinds when we're not home.

As a variation of this (because Poe never barked at the door, she just stood RIGHT on the other side of it expecting to need to throw-down if it was an intruder) I had my guests and friends say "Hi, Poe!" as they knocked. I actually encouraged everyone to do it (my mailman was PHENOMENAL at this!), I put a sign on my front door that said:

"There is a large dog on the other side of this door, please say "Hello Poe!" and let her know you mean no harm. "

For her, hearing anyone outside call her name triggered for her that they were "good people" and she could calm down. The sign helped a lot because it mediated the need for me to yell through the door the directions I wanted guests to follow. People tend to follow written directions better anyway, I've found.

I hope that's helpful, let us know how Harley does!

Another really interesting idea, I will try to put it into action. I think the UPS man believes he is a large dog already!

Of course I'll keep everybody up to date!

Patricia McConnell would say, "Anticipate the behavior and have the yummiest treats ever ready for Harley..........bits of chicken preferably. Then have a friend come to the door and before they knock or come in, distract him with the chicken. Eventually, if you do it over and over, the association with people coming into the house will be that yummy things happen." Did you say you were looking to buy the Brooklyn Bridge?

Not sure I know who Patricia McConnell is off the top of my head....Harley digs treats, and also sometimes responds well to the clicker, I will add that to the list! Already have the London Bridge, the Mackinac Bridge, and the Golden Gate Bridge, the Brooklyn Bridge would make a fine addition!

did you try turning your back on him? i mean really turning you back and making a show of it? when i do that to hunter he gets really upset. not barking upset, but really sad upset. i found it was really an effective way to let him know he did something bad.

That's effective with begging or time to stop playing, but that's about it. He doesn't get so much upset as he gets that we're not cooperating with his plans.

-m

Edited February 3, 2010 by mr.coffee

[mr.coffee 364]

Well, one day into it, and today when we got home from running errands, I knocked before entering, and for the first time, he didn't bark at me! Phase one is looking promising!

-m