Another Marking Problem

[Vicki 8,173]

My 17 month old male is driving me nuts! He is not neutered and I plan on showing him (so I can't try that).

When I bought Panda at 9 months old, I believe he had been abused and the marking is probably the reason for the abuse and the reason he was sold.

I've spent the past 8 months trying to get Panda over his fears and seldom even verbally scold him in a disciplining tone. His fears have greatly improved and I don't want him to go back to being the dog he was when I first got him. He is such a cutie.

I've tried everything I have read in an attempt to get him to stop. His favorite place to lift is leg (it's always his right leg) is on the sides of my fabric sofa which is on carpeting. His next favorite spot is on the refrigerator which is a tile floor.

For a while, putting tin foil down in the areas he lifts his leg worked, but then one day he just started doing it on the foil too.

I have scolded him (but not in a threatening manner).

I've had heart to heart talks with him about how it's not something he should be doing and how upset it makes me. (I've even cried to him!)

I've tried putting him outside and crated him as discipline with no affect.

I've tried taking him out for walks every 15 minutes.

I've tried every "no marking" product I can find.

I thoroughly clean each and every spot I find to remove any odors.

He's been checked for a bladder problem and doesn't have one.

He is definitely marking as he knows perfectly well he should go outside to do his duty. Frequently his marks are only a few drops.

My babies have access to outside 24 hours a day. I had my sliding glass door remodeled to include a built in doggie door. Outside I built a sunroom (plexiglass) and put decking in it so they could go outside to do their 'duty' and not get their feet wet. The sunroom has access to the 'real' outside in my back yard too.

Belly bands are the only way I've found to keep his urine contained. I use Poise pads and whenever I take the belly band off so he can 'really' go outside, it's usually wet. He doesn't seem to mind a bit when he's wet. I was hoping that would really bother him.

Another thing I tried was a (human) child's bedwetting alarm. The one I used sounded a loud alarm as soon as the sensor got wet. He ran the first time it went off, but the second time it went off, it didn't seem to phase him one bit. It did drive my female nuts though and she'd bark and bark (which she seldom does) until I'd get there to remove the belly band.

At this point, I have zero more ideas. Having him wear a belly band for the rest of his life doesn't really excite me either.

Does anyone have any suggestions on anything else I could try?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[luvmybabies 165]

I sure hope someone has another idea from what you have listed that works. I have a male maltese and a male papillon that I have a problem with too. They were both neutered at one year of age (right after I got them) but had already been marking. So neutering doesn't stop the problem.....at least after it starts. My oldest male Tzu was neutered at 7 months and has never even lifted his leg. I have a 7 mo. old Tzu puppy now that has not been neutered (show dog) and so far he has not lifted his leg either (touch wood). I have used the belly band too but it makes such a stinky mess of their hair I gave up. Most of the time they are not allowed in the living room as they think of the carpet as one big pee pad and go around marking each other's territory if allowed more than a few minutes in there. I think it gets worse each new dog I get as they get more and more territorial. They keep it to a minimum in the kitchen and bathroom and mostly use pee pads but now and again will lift their legs on a chair leg. I have 5 on pee pads and it is getting more and more expensive as the Tzus grow older as their bladders are bigger and bigger so more pee at a time. I have one of those potty patch things in the bathroom but they need a pee pad on top of it but at least it catches the overflow. Also recently I have put big plastic trays (similar to a boot tray) in the kitchen under the pee pads but the Tzus seem leary of the noise it makes when they walk on it. Hope they get used to it soon. They too are bigger than the pee pad and I hope it will catch the overflow so my floor doesn't get ruined entirely! I am open to suggestions too on how to stop the marking problem.

[mom2Gizmo 24]

My shih tzu was neutered at 7 months old. He is now 2 years and 3 months old and lifting his leg is still a problem. He is only allowed access to two rooms in my house and I still clean up after him often. I will never have another male toy sized dog. Females only from now on! My sisters male maltese has to wear a belly band, as well as a coworker/friends male bichon.

Gizmo does not wear belly bands because he is extrememly distressed by them. I've never seen another dog react as badly to them as he does. He gets so upset he pants heavily and refuses to eat. He'll also asks to go outside and does not want to come in again. He just pouts in the backyard.

Edited October 16, 2010 by mom2Gizmo

[Carolina Girl 2]

Oh my goodness! What a nightmare......I always heard that once neutered, they would not do this. Ozzy has never lifted his leg and is about 2 years old. Hopefully he never does. Mowgli hasn't lifted his leg...YET..... He's just now 6 months old. I have not gotten him neutered yet.

So, if you get them neutered before they ever lift their leg, will they just never do this?

[ruffian 4]

Sometimes yes, but not very often, usually if there is another dog doing it the other males will follow and do it as well, just as they would outside. My aunt and uncle had a male dog that they never neutered and he would mark everyones house, my male Shiba, Tonka would not however, unless JC had been there first. That is what instinct is telling them to do.

I have known people in the past who had success with teaching their dogs to pee on command. They didnt allow the dogs to pee on things while outside until they stopped and gave the command, and they kept them on a leash while inside so they could stop them as soon as they started to lift their leg. Eventually the dogs would only pee when given the command. Its a lengthy process, but it can work.

[Vicki 8,173]

Thanks so much for the replies! Please keep the suggestions coming....

I sure hope someone has another idea from what you have listed that works. I have a male maltese and a male papillon that I have a problem with too. They were both neutered at one year of age (right after I got them) but had already been marking. So neutering doesn't stop the problem.....at least after it starts. My oldest male Tzu was neutered at 7 months and has never even lifted his leg. I have a 7 mo. old Tzu puppy now that has not been neutered (show dog) and so far he has not lifted his leg either (touch wood). I have used the belly band too but it makes such a stinky mess of their hair I gave up. Most of the time they are not allowed in the living room as they think of the carpet as one big pee pad and go around marking each other's territory if allowed more than a few minutes in there. I think it gets worse each new dog I get as they get more and more territorial. They keep it to a minimum in the kitchen and bathroom and mostly use pee pads but now and again will lift their legs on a chair leg. I have 5 on pee pads and it is getting more and more expensive as the Tzus grow older as their bladders are bigger and bigger so more pee at a time. I have one of those potty patch things in the bathroom but they need a pee pad on top of it but at least it catches the overflow. Also recently I have put big plastic trays (similar to a boot tray) in the kitchen under the pee pads but the Tzus seem leary of the noise it makes when they walk on it. Hope they get used to it soon. They too are bigger than the pee pad and I hope it will catch the overflow so my floor doesn't get ruined entirely! I am open to suggestions too on how to stop the marking problem.

My shih tzu was neutered at 7 months old. He is now 2 years and 3 months old and lifting his leg is still a problem. He is only allowed access to two rooms in my house and I still clean up after him often. I will never have another male toy sized dog. Females only from now on! My sisters male maltese has to wear a belly band, as well as a coworker/friends male bichon.

Gizmo does not wear belly bands because he is extrememly distressed by them. I've never seen another dog react as badly to them as he does. He gets so upset he pants heavily and refuses to eat. He'll also asks to go outside and does not want to come in again. He just pouts in the backyard.

Oh my goodness! What a nightmare......I always heard that once neutered, they would not do this. Ozzy has never lifted his leg and is about 2 years old. Hopefully he never does. Mowgli hasn't lifted his leg...YET..... He's just now 6 months old. I have not gotten him neutered yet.

So, if you get them neutered before they ever lift their leg, will they just never do this?

Sometimes yes, but not very often, usually if there is another dog doing it the other males will follow and do it as well, just as they would outside. My aunt and uncle had a male dog that they never neutered and he would mark everyones house, my male Shiba, Tonka would not however, unless JC had been there first. That is what instinct is telling them to do.

I have known people in the past who had success with teaching their dogs to pee on command. They didnt allow the dogs to pee on things while outside until they stopped and gave the command, and they kept them on a leash while inside so they could stop them as soon as they started to lift their leg. Eventually the dogs would only pee when given the command. Its a lengthy process, but it can work.

I had my doubts that neutering would work considering Panda was already in the habit. I've felt guilty too for not trying it (neutering).

I'd spoken to two Dog Therapists that both said neutering was the only way to eliminate the problem, but just didn't want to end my showing hopes (at least, just yet).

Belly bands certainly are a "stinky mess"!!!

I do keep both my babies confined to the kitchen and family room of my home using two child gates. They do love it when they get the run of the house though and I'd so love to be able to allow them that freedom.

My little female wouldn't think of going anywhere in the house.

I don't think Panda has the "smarts" to learn how to "pee on command". I've often wondered if his prior abuse could have caused a brain injury (???). When you say something to him, he frequently just looks at you like he's saying "HUH"? It's such a cute look though.

I have tried leaving Panda's leash on when he's in the house, but Ebony thinks he's a 'tug of war' toy then and drags him everywhere she can. He doesn't seem to mind a bit.

Please keep the suggestions coming as I'm willing to try just about anything.

[Lyn 0]

Hi!

I really need to introduce myself to everyone and will soon. But when I read all these posts, I just had to share because I can soooo relate to all of you. I have 2 tzus. One was neutered at 5 mos. and has never marked. The other is 2 1/2 yrs. old and was neutered just in Mar. of this year. At one time he was a terrible marker. He drove me crazy!!!! His neutering was an emergency due to being stuck two days in a row. In the process of being neutered the vet figured out that he had a bad UTI also. I put him on Blue Buffalo hoping he would get what he needed nutritionally since I was homecooking. Just last month he had another horrible UTI. He was put on 6 wks on antibiotics twice a day and a special vet diet. A grand total of $900 - overnight hospitalization, urine culture, catherization, and meds. I have hired a pet sitter who comes to let my tzus out around lunch every week day. I have noticed he does not mark if he does not have to wait no more than about 5 hrs since having a pet sitter. I think he may have been marking some all along but I really believe part of the problem is that he just can't hold it for no more than 4-5 hrs. I'm anxious to see how him will be when he finishes his med. We have about 2 1/2 more wks. before we are finished with them. Oh, also, I maybe wrong but I wonder if the bellyband may have caused his UTI the first time because of staying wet for so long which I believe could cause bacteria and set up an infection. Good luck to all of you!!!!! I can really sympathize!!!!

Lyn

[mom2Gizmo 24]

Many times dogs (both males and females) will mark because they are actually insecure. Most people think it means a dog is dominant. And yes, dominant dogs will mark. But all in all, dominant dogs are not usually your obsessive markers (or overly aggressive with other dogs). Dominant dogs have nothing to prove, in other words. Insecure dogs will mark very often to reassure themselves. And I'm sure that living in a house with other dogs makes it worse.

Gizmo can go weeks without marking, but if my sisters dog comes to visit he will begin marking again the next day. It drives me crazy. Then he establishes the habit again and we're back to square one.

[Vicki 8,173]

Hi!

I really need to introduce myself to everyone and will soon. But when I read all these posts, I just had to share because I can soooo relate to all of you. I have 2 tzus. One was neutered at 5 mos. and has never marked. The other is 2 1/2 yrs. old and was neutered just in Mar. of this year. At one time he was a terrible marker. He drove me crazy!!!! His neutering was an emergency due to being stuck two days in a row. In the process of being neutered the vet figured out that he had a bad UTI also. I put him on Blue Buffalo hoping he would get what he needed nutritionally since I was homecooking. Just last month he had another horrible UTI. He was put on 6 wks on antibiotics twice a day and a special vet diet. A grand total of $900 - overnight hospitalization, urine culture, catherization, and meds. I have hired a pet sitter who comes to let my tzus out around lunch every week day. I have noticed he does not mark if he does not have to wait no more than about 5 hrs since having a pet sitter. I think he may have been marking some all along but I really believe part of the problem is that he just can't hold it for no more than 4-5 hrs. I'm anxious to see how him will be when he finishes his med. We have about 2 1/2 more wks. before we are finished with them. Oh, also, I maybe wrong but I wonder if the bellyband may have caused his UTI the first time because of staying wet for so long which I believe could cause bacteria and set up an infection. Good luck to all of you!!!!! I can really sympathize!!!!

Lyn

Welcome Lyn. I am new to Chatter as well. Glad to hear the pet sitter is helping to solve your problem but sorry to hear about the UTI.

My babies have 24/7 access to outside via the doggie door I had built in to my sliding glass door. At night and whenever I'm not home, I have a Great Dane sized crate (with one of it's doors removed) which sits directly in front of the doggie door.

My male marks even when he's just been outside five minutes before the mark, sometimes 3 or 4 times!

I use a Poise Pad inside the band I put on Panda and that "almost" completely keeps him dry from the urine. Before I started using the Poise Pad his coat would sometimes be wet, but no longer. These pads are specifically made for adult humans with incontinence problems. I also replace the pad frequently whenever I discover it's wet.

Many times dogs (both males and females) will mark because they are actually insecure. Most people think it means a dog is dominant. And yes, dominant dogs will mark. But all in all, dominant dogs are not usually your obsessive markers (or overly aggressive with other dogs). Dominant dogs have nothing to prove, in other words. Insecure dogs will mark very often to reassure themselves. And I'm sure that living in a house with other dogs makes it worse.

Gizmo can go weeks without marking, but if my sisters dog comes to visit he will begin marking again the next day. It drives me crazy. Then he establishes the habit again and we're back to square one.

When I first brought Panda home and discovered his marking, I thought maybe it was an insecurity problem. He's lived here for almost 9 months and doesn't seem insecure at all now. I will start watching for any signs again though.

THANKS for the reminder.

[bengietheshihtzu 0]

Bengie used to be a horrible marker until i had him fixed. He was probably about 4 years old when he was neutered for other reasons (mainly aggressiveness towards other dogs). After the procedure I could tell the difference right away. Prior to being fixed he would spray briefly in multiple areas. After neutering he would just do it all at once and sometimes just squats now instead of lifting the leg.

He still does go poop in the house every once in a while and sometimes takes up to 10 minutes to find the "perfect" spot to relieve himself outside but at least the marking has stopped.

I don't know if neutering is an option but may be worth a try. Also, I should mention that my room mate has an unfixed dog that still marks in the house which has not affected Bengie at all.

[Seastar 44]

Neutering is your best, and maybe only, option. If you are certain he is show quality and you want to go that route, you will just have to cope somehow. Many show males spend much of their lives crated to prevent marking and accidental breedings.

My puppy Clark is now just over 6 months and began lifting his leg two weeks ago (when we were visiting Pam!). Although Pam was certain he would be a successful show dog, I made the tough decision that I couldn't part with him while he was being shown (since I didn't want to do it myself) because he's such a sweetie. Therefore, he is being neutered in two weeks.

[tzuhouse 4]

My Maddy was neutered at 6 months and never lifted his leg nor marked UNTIL Rudy came on the scene....almost immediately Maddy began lifting his leg..sometimes..(but very bad at it, he fell over a couple of times...LOL). Rudy was neutered at 5 months, just turned a year in Sept and still have never lifted his leg. I expect it soon cause he sniffs where (and when) Maddy lifts (mostly he has gone back to squating)....BUT, IF I ever let Maddy upstairs, and don't watch him like a hawk, he will mark on the bannister post....makes me so mad....I don't know why there and no place else, but guess I should be glad about that....simple solution....DON'T let him upstairs....LOL

[mom2Gizmo 24]

My Gizmo has been neutered for almost 2 years and still marks. He was 7 months old when he was neutered. Obviously, neutering is not the only answer here!...lol

[Vicki 8,173]

I do understand that neutering may end the problem, though I've also heard it may not.

I really don't want to neuter Panda; at least not yet.

Keeping the 'band' on him all the time is starting to wear some of his hair off, so showing him may not be an option now.

I really don't want to keep him crated a lot either.

Sure wish there was a simple solution.

Thanks everyone for all the suggestions.

Please keep them coming.

[mom2Gizmo 24]

I don't think there is a simple solution really. Like I said, I just manage the problem. Keep him limited as to what rooms he can be in, check the legs of all tables daily, etc. Neutering does not always solve the problem, it did not in mine, but it still should be done. I'm not going to get on my soap box, though.....